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  • tarps3
    Super-Experienced
    • Jul 21 2003
    • 837

    better hope nothing goes wrong with your new GM car/truck

    Bankruptcy takes away plaintiffs' day in court
    Chapter 11 is allowing Chrysler, GM to shed hundreds of injury and death claims
    Doug Guthrie / The Detroit News

    Detroit --Stevie Beale awoke in a hospital bed three years ago hearing her father's voice assuring, "No matter what anyone tells you, you are going to walk again."

    "I thought, 'Oh, it's that bad,' " said Beale, now 20, at one of her three-times-a-week therapy sessions at the Detroit Medical Center's Rehabilitation Institute of Michigan.

    The lawsuit the Lambertville, Mich., native filed against General Motors Corp. claims faulty seat belt attachment design caused her to be paralyzed from the waist down in a car crash.

    She says engineers knew through testing that the steel floor in the 1998 Pontiac Bonneville was too weak.

    But Beale's claims and hundreds of other injury and death lawsuits throughout the nation will be wiped out by controversial government plans to bring GM and Chrysler Group LLC out of bankruptcy debt-free.

    "It's not fair that I'm not going to get the compensation I need from GM to live my changed life," said the former athlete. "I'm not even going to get my day in court so I can at least warn people about the danger."

    The new Chrysler can't be held liable for incidents involving the estimated 10 million cars and trucks sold by the automaker before June 10, when the company emerged from bankruptcy. Victims and their survivors with pending and future lawsuits against the old Chrysler are in the least protected class of creditors, and are likely to get nothing.

    The same rules could apply to General Motors' estimated 30 million vehicles already on the road when it emerges from bankruptcy, perhaps in July.

    On Friday, attorneys general from eight states opposed the provision in GM's bankruptcy plan. They filed an objection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of New York.

    The attorneys general of Connecticut, Kentucky, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota and Vermont argued that the rules would bar accident victims from key legal rights.

    Critics say this blocks a bedrock American right to legal recourse and creates second-class status for unwitting drivers, who will remain behind the wheels of liability-free old GM and Chrysler vehicles for years to come.

    It also is likely to derail numerous state "lemon laws" and consumer protection mechanisms that rely on lawsuits to track defects and force manufacturers to recall and correct unsafe vehicles, according to consumer advocates.

    The new GM and Chrysler are promising to honor all product warranties and can be sued for defects causing injury in any vehicle sold after emerging from bankruptcy. But the companies and the government insist the legal curtain protecting the new companies from liability for past products is common in bankruptcies.

    Both GM and Chrysler are self-insured against product liability, so there is nothing for victims if the old companies' coffers are drained.

    Victims with already court-ordered awards will end up fighting over the old automakers' scraps with the biggest secured creditors, including suppliers, pension funds and stockholders.

    "If your ball joint fails and a wheel falls off, they will fix that. This says they care more about parts than people," said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategy, a Massachusetts-based consulting firm for consumer groups and government agencies. "What incentive does the manufacturer have to improve safety on a car when they have no liability?"

    The alternative was worse
    GM and Chrysler emphasize the alternative was complete liquidation of the companies.

    "Chrysler is saddened anytime someone is injured in one of our vehicles. Our vehicles meet or exceed all federal safety standards and have excellent safety records," said Michael Palese of Chrysler corporate communications. "The reality is that automobile accidents are unpredictable and dangerous events where bad things sometimes happen. An injury resulting from an accident or contact with a motor vehicle is not evidence that a vehicle is defective."

    Tom Wilkinson, director of General Motors news relations, said, "If you just look at the headlines since June 1, you can see that this bankruptcy process has been very painful for many stakeholders -- employees, retirees, dealers, suppliers, plant communities, investors, etc. But again, the alternative to a successful Chapter 11 process is liquidation of the company, a situation under which claimants could expect little if any recovery."

    Government takes hard line
    Lynn LoPucki, a professor and bankruptcy expert at UCLA Law School, grew up in Belleville and is aware of the importance of the auto industry's survival to Michigan.

    "There is a whole process set up to handle Chapter 11 cases and they are end-running this, and it makes it difficult or impossible for creditors to participate," LoPucki said.

    GM has reported expenditures of $928 million for product liability in 2008, while revenues totaled $149 billion. That figure lumps legal costs with payments for claims. In 2007, liability expenses were $1.1 billion, while revenues totaled $180 billion.

    "That's why this is such a strange decision. The figures aren't going to be that big, and aren't going to make a big difference," said LoPucki.

    "They should assume liability for their cars. Instead, they give people a very good reason to not buy their cars," she said.

    "Certainly, if you are smart, you shouldn't buy a GM car right now. Not until the bankruptcy is complete. And it's all because they simply are nickeling and diming their own customers."
    John Pottow, a University of Michigan law professor and bankruptcy expert, was returning Thursday from a conference in New York, where he said General Motors lawyers gave him the impression they are still considering how to proceed.

    "They still are saying they need to close their liability on vehicles produced by the old GM, but this is a very serious issue, and there is some consideration of at least including vehicles sold during the pendency of GM's bankruptcy," Pottow said.

    "What's fascinating about this is that it is the government taking the hard line here, insisting that the new company should emerge free of those liabilities. It's the government actually thinking like hardheaded investors instead of taking the more predictable, more socialist line," Pottow said.

    "It's actually the government saying to the owners of these old Chrysler and GM cars, 'Too bad to be you.' "

    Brian Catalano, 35, a laid-off millwright for a Port Huron auto parts supplier, said, "Everyone is paying through their taxes to a company that I feel killed my mother."

    Linda Catalano, 55, was run over Aug. 3 near Harbor Beach by her Chrysler minivan. A lawsuit claims the transmissions in Chrysler's vans are infamous for jumping from park to reverse. A trial was set for January 2010, but Brian Catalano expects now that the case will be thrown out.

    Anger, bitterness arise
    "We understand how much we absolutely need the automakers to survive," said Catalano, whose brother, Bradley, and sister, Christina, are United Auto Workers members in Metro Detroit. "But at what cost? This plan takes every customer that has been with Chrysler and GM and throws them to the curb."

    In another case, the parents of 16-year-old Justin Fox bought a 2002 Chevrolet Silverado believing their son would be safe in a large pickup. He died July 4, 2007, when he was broadsided at a rural intersection by a St. Johns High School hockey teammate. The Foxes sued GM.

    "He didn't die from injuries suffered in the crash. He burned to death," said his mother, Michelle Fox. "I always tried to buy American-made, and now it makes me bitter and feel guilty that what I did to protect him cost his life. We believe that if my son had been in another vehicle, he'd still be alive."

    Lambertville's Beale said her life changed "180 degrees" after the June 15, 2006, crash. Her best friend and fellow backseat passenger, Charlie Fackelman, 17, died. His parents also are suing GM.

    She said she's lost friends because her special needs no longer fit their spontaneous lifestyle. Her family home -- where she can't cook or do laundry because it's not handicapped-accessible -- has been for sale for three years. Her parents divorced under the stress of high medical bills and their daughter's overwhelming needs.

    "When I first got home, I couldn't go to the bathroom by myself," said Beale, who is a psychology major at Lourdes College, just across the state line in Sylvania, Ohio. "I can never travel far from my parents because they help me all the time. Day-to-day is a constant battle."

    Members of Congress are awakening to the fine print in the Chrysler agreement, said Joanne Doroshow, executive director of the consumer legal affairs advocacy group Center for Justice and Democracy. She calls the deal "morally reprehensible."

    Critics are lobbying to establish government-supported victims' compensation funds. Up to 1,000 people are hurt or killed annually by auto design defects, Doroshow said. "There is a lot of discussion in Washington about compensation funds, which happens frequently in cases like this. Look at the failed asbestos industry and the claims that were handled in the wake of 9/11," Doroshow said. "When you have products that have and will continue to kill people, there are funds set up for victims."
    Casey
  • Guest

    #2
    A good friend of mine, his 17 year old son was driving an older chevy truck, the ones with the fuel tank outside of the frame rails. He was broadsided and the tank exploded in flame. His body was burnt 95% and he was not expected to live but he did. He is horribly disfigured and will deal with this for the rest of his life. He did win a law suit with GM that should cover most of his needs in the future. If there is no liability to GM after thier chapter11 then people in the same situation would be left to suffer on their own. Thats just wrong!!

    Comment

    • tarps3
      Super-Experienced
      • Jul 21 2003
      • 837

      #3
      it's hard to fight corporate lawyers AND your own government!

      "Government of the people, by the people, and for the people..."

      my grandparents told me it used to be sorta like that....

      wait till you see what they do to your healthcare!
      if they are dismissing these kind of claims, what chance do you have with an "existing condition" or some such thing?
      Casey

      Comment

      • SandyBoy
        Super-Experienced
        • Oct 31 2002
        • 836

        #4
        Where is the rest ?

        Number one:
        I absolutely 100% believe everything herewith stated above.
        These poor people are getting regally screwed and it's not right,
        but is it really G.M. AND Chrysler's fault - OR - the fault of
        those insurance companies who they employ to pay out on
        claims on vehicles made during a timeframe that said insurance
        companies collected payments for?

        Number Two:
        Whether you know it or not, there is a mega big protection
        group, active here, in the USA that looks after the interests
        of the Foreign automakers, doing business here.
        The have on their coughers some of the biggest/best Legal
        groups as their ONLY clients.

        That said; they sell MORE cars/trucks here in the USA,
        than do G.M. and Chrysler! You cannot tell me that fewer
        persons have become incapacated in their mass produced tiny
        cars! Perhaps it's because their occupants are simply all Killed,
        and their injuries die with them?

        Whom has looked into what the Foreign brands are paying out in
        health/medical lawsuits?
        Common sence says, they are selling more Toyotas & Hondas than
        Pontiacs & Chryslers, so what gives?

        Now, regarding payouts to people as in the examamples herein,
        IMHO they (G.M. & Chrysler) NEED to be humain and take
        care of these needy people, PRONTO and the Legal associations need to find out why the foreign autos legal associations are asleep at the wheel, for the injured drivers of:
        Honda, Toyota, Nissan,Infiniti, Lexus, Kia, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Acura, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Daewoo, Ferrari, Hyundai, Land Rover, Lamborghini, Lotus, Maserati, Maybach, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Porsche, Mini, Saab, Volkswagon, Think and Volvo
        OR will they next go after Ford and then Zimmer and Avanti, and then the other American manufactures who make/sell about 100 cars a year, such as the prior two brands??
        Ummm?

        Comment

        • Anders
          Super-Experienced
          • Jan 19 2008
          • 2213

          #5
          I beleve there is a risk that I might put my feet into something I donīt know everything about, and if so, I like to apologyze already now. But I am very confused here. Donīt you have insurance that take care of this?
          As far as I know, we have never been able to sue anyone here. For anything. Ever.
          We are obliged to have insurance that covers healthcare and loss of incombe.

          I also know that we ( at Volvo ) must put warning decals all over the cars that goes to US, in order not get sued. I donīt get it. Hare, we have the owners manual to read if we want to know about the vehicle.

          Please donīt think that I am picking on these victims. Not at all.
          Last edited by Anders; June 23, 2009, 02:06 PM.
          sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth":)
          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

          Comment

          • Guest

            #6
            Originally posted by Anders Myrberg
            I beleve there is a risk that I might put my feet into something I donīt know everything about, and if so, I like to apologyze already now. But I am very confused here. Donīt you have insurance that take care of this?
            As far as I know, we have never been able to sue anyone here. For anything. Ever.
            We are obliged to have insurance that covers healthcare and loss of incombe.

            I also know that we ( at Volvo ) must put warning decals all over the cars that goes to US, in order not get sued. I donīt get it. Hare, we have the owners manual to read if we want to know about the vehicle.

            Please donīt think that I am picking on these victims. Not at all.
            Auto insurance will cover medical expences to get you up and running again. In the case of this 17 year old boy the insurance company of the car that ran into him covered his emergency medical and hospital stay up to the amount of liability coverage purchased by the car owner. Lets just say that was 100,000 per person injured, that is pretty common . In the boys case 100,000 was used up very quickly, he had 2nd and 3rd degree burns almost 100% of his body. When the max liability is reached the insurance company stops paying and the injured is left to go after the car owner for the rest. Most regular people cannot afford a million+ dollars in medical costs so the young man would have been screwed even getting his initial expences paid.
            In the case of the chevy truck, GM was aware that the fuel tank was in a very bad place, outside of the frame rail right under the driver and there was very little protection from a side impact but they continued to build them and sell them. There was no mention to the buyer of a new truck that their lives could be in dangered from a minor side impact collision. Nothing in the owners manual about it. It wasnt until after the list of dead and burned people got nice and long that GM changed the design and moved the tank inside of the frame rails. It was simply a very poor design and they did nothing about it for a number of years. They were at fault for continuing to sell the truck and waiting for a number of years to move the fuel tank. The boys only recource was to go to the builder of the unsafe truck. I will say again that this young man was disfugered badly, totally unrecognizable, just a solid mass of scar tissue. The kind of injury that doesnt get better ever, he will have problems and scares till the day he dies. His ears were burned off, god.
            Ford went thru a very similar situation with the Pinto years ago. The tank was very close to the rear of the car with a light weight rear bumper as its protection. There were fires and people were hurt but they at least most had a chance to escape because of the location of the tank (in the rear of the car) and if hit in the rear the car would tend to be pushed forward away from all the gas. I think Ford was a little quicker to resolve the problem too. In the Chevy truck the tank was right between the drivers door threshold and the frame. If hit in the side the tank would burst, well you can imagine 20 gallons of gas mashed all over the underside of the truck, on the ground and on fire at the drivers door.
            All cars can be dangerous, driving is dangerous. Volvo has a reputation of being one of the safest cars on the road. Not all cars share in this reputation.
            My daily driver is a Jeep Wrangler, I lifted it 6-1/2 inches and put 35 inch tires on it. Its an unstable vehicle to begin with and I made it worse and at the same time voided any libility that Chrysler might have had. If my Jeep was to roll over and my passenger was injured beyond my injury coverage ($100,000) I would be liable for the rest.

            I love the comical warning stickers in the jeep, One warns that the doors are not meant to keep you inside the vehicle
            Last edited by Guest; June 23, 2009, 11:36 PM.

            Comment

            • tarps3
              Super-Experienced
              • Jul 21 2003
              • 837

              #7
              Originally posted by Anders Myrberg
              I beleve there is a risk that I might put my feet into something I donīt know everything about, and if so, I like to apologyze already now. But I am very confused here. Donīt you have insurance that take care of this?
              As far as I know, we have never been able to sue anyone here. For anything. Ever.
              We are obliged to have insurance that covers healthcare and loss of incombe.

              I also know that we ( at Volvo ) must put warning decals all over the cars that goes to US, in order not get sued. I donīt get it. Hare, we have the owners manual to read if we want to know about the vehicle.

              Please donīt think that I am picking on these victims. Not at all.

              As a lawyer friend once told me:
              Anyone can sue anybody for anything. And they do!

              It's part of what's wrong with our country.
              The legal industry - and it's really an industry - is self-perpetuating.

              When the lady spilled hot coffee on herself and sued McDonalds, it really became obvious that personal responsibility means very little now.

              Heck - we even have robbers suing homeowners because they were injured in the home they were stealing from.

              You have to hire a lawyer to do anything.

              Those with money sue those without to coerce them into doing what they want.

              Example:
              I know a guy who lived next to a wealthy man.
              The wealthy man wanted about an acre of land that separated the 2 properties (and the legal owner didn't want to sell him any of it) so he sued the legal owner of the land under claims of "adverse possession". This means that the wealthy guy said he deserved the other man's land because he mowed it a few times before the homeowner ever moved to the neighborhood.
              The wealthy guy had no chance of winning this case, but he had enough money to drag it out in court to essentially bankrupt the legal owner (both parties had to pay their own legal fees).
              The legal owner finally agreed to sell the acre of land (at a reduced price nonetheless) to avoid losing EVERYTHING.
              It's called extortion and blackmail but it worked because the wealthy guy had enough money to hire lawyers and make the legal owner go broke paying attorney fees.

              money speaks louder than morals.
              Casey

              Comment

              • Anders
                Super-Experienced
                • Jan 19 2008
                • 2213

                #8
                Originally posted by chewrocks
                Auto insurance will cover medical expences to get you up and running again. In the case of this 17 year old boy the insurance company of the car that ran into him covered his emergency medical and hospital stay up to the amount of liability coverage purchased by the car owner. Lets just say that was 100,000 per person injured, that is pretty common . In the boys case 100,000 was used up very quickly, he had 2nd and 3rd degree burns almost 100% of his body. When the max liability is reached the insurance company stops paying and the injured is left to go after the car owner for the rest. Most regular people cannot afford a million+ dollars in medical costs so the young man would have been screwed even getting his initial expences paid.
                In the case of the chevy truck, GM was aware that the fuel tank was in a very bad place, outside of the frame rail right under the driver and there was very little protection from a side impact but they continued to build them and sell them. There was no mention to the buyer of a new truck that their lives could be in dangered from a minor side impact collision. Nothing in the owners manual about it. It wasnt until after the list of dead and burned people got nice and long that GM changed the design and moved the tank inside of the frame rails. It was simply a very poor design and they did nothing about it for a number of years. They were at fault for continuing to sell the truck and waiting for a number of years to move the fuel tank. The boys only recource was to go to the builder of the unsafe truck. I will say again that this young man was disfugered badly, totally unrecognizable, just a solid mass of scar tissue. The kind of injury that doesnt get better ever, he will have problems and scares till the day he dies. His ears were burned off, god.
                Ford went thru a very similar situation with the Pinto years ago. The tank was very close to the rear of the car with a light weight rear bumper as its protection. There were fires and people were hurt but they at least most had a chance to escape because of the location of the tank (in the rear of the car) and if hit in the rear the car would tend to be pushed forward away from all the gas. I think Ford was a little quicker to resolve the problem too. In the Chevy truck the tank was right between the drivers door threshold and the frame. If hit in the side the tank would burst, well you can imagine 20 gallons of gas mashed all over the underside of the truck, on the ground and on fire at the drivers door.
                All cars can be dangerous, driving is dangerous. Volvo has a reputation of being one of the safest cars on the road. Not all cars share in this reputation.
                My daily driver is a Jeep Wrangler, I lifted it 6-1/2 inches and put 35 inch tires on it. Its an unstable vehicle to begin with and I made it worse and at the same time voided any libility that Chrysler might have had. If my Jeep was to roll over and my passenger was injured beyond my injury coverage ($100,000) I would be liable for the rest.

                I love the comical warning stickers in the jeep, One warns that the doors are not meant to keep you inside the vehicle
                There are people who get burned here as well, and also in Volvos of course, but because perhaps by a different reason.
                I guess the whole medical and healthcare "thing" is where we are different, and why you might need to sue someone.
                Everytime I need to go to a doctor or hospital, I have to pay something approx. around 100 to 300 SEK ( 13,5 - 40 dollars ) depending if I need a nerce, doctor or even a privat doctor. Each time. But we also have maximum cost for 12 months to 900 SEK ( 120 dollars ). If I need to be put into a hospital, the maximum they will charge me is 80 SEK a day ( 10,6 dollars ). But less if you donīt earn so much. That includes everything they need to do to fix you, and all meals as well.
                sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth":)
                http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

                Comment

                • Penelope
                  Super-Experienced
                  • Mar 4 2008
                  • 670

                  #9
                  OK Anders, if I get sick, I'm coming to Sweden. That is so cheap! Don't start us Aussies on health care costs...
                  sigpicBill
                  Thunderbird Registry 21903 & 33405

                  Comment

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