Electric independence for cars and trucks? Not for a while.

[simplyconnected]

I don't want to get political here but Biden's claim to eliminate fossil fuel (by 2025) simply isn't even a remote possibility. The idea is gallant but reality dictates differently. Let's talk about the 'mechanics' of this.

Biden shut down the pipeline before putting an alternative energy in place. That did two things; raised the price of gasoline and laid-off thousands of American and Canadian workers. America no longer has energy independence and more regulations are resumed from the Obama administration.

We heat our homes mostly with fossil fuel. Most fossil fuel powerhouses can run on a variety of fuels (coal, oil, gas or even wood). The object is to boil water to make steam for our turbine-generators. So, most electricity to charge batteries comes from fossil fuel.

America moves by truck and train. They burn diesel fuel and lots of it. Here in the North, our snow removal and road construction equipment also burns diesel and so do Great Lakes ships. Can they be battery operated? Not with today's battery technology and resources.

Charging stations require as much power as an electric range, 40-amps of 230-volts (or 9,200-watts) for many hours. Our electric grid isn't equipped to deliver such a huge increase in power. That's half-again what we have presently. Remember, everyone will come home from work and plug-in at the same time, turn on heat/air-conditioning, make dinner, take showers, etc. Charging time is much longer than cooking time. Now, imagine large cities like 8.8Million in the Greater Chicago area, all charging their cars at the same time.

What about gas stations, practically on every busy corner? Done, and the people are laid-off. It's not like the owners can sell their gas stations. New owners have to exhume the fuel tanks under concrete before opening a new business.

Finally, what about CLASSIC CAR owners. IF we can find gasoline, how much will it cost? What about the corn farmers who supply ethanol? Done. Is massive unemployment really going to help sell electric cars or help the environment? In less than twenty years our dumps will be filled with dead batteries that cannot safely be disposed of.

I don't think Washington has thought this through and I don't see electric cars/trucks/trains/boats/construction equipment replacing fossil fuel any time soon. - Dave

[frank58]

Dave, you are absolutely correct.... it's impossible....it's not going to happen...politi-speak nonsense aimed at consoling certain groups of supporters. maybe in 50 years but certainly not in 3.
Again, not meant as political but as a FACT.

[Pat in Ma]

Hi Dave,

They never think it completely through which is always the key. just make some claims, get everyone excited then say we need to work on it for a while.
same with global warming and related issues. let the population keep exploding, keep cutting down all the trees, build more houses and expand the massive
heat absorbing then radiating concrete cities, next to the "rising" oceans I might add, then say geez what went wrong.

Common sense, what ever happen to that and taking responsibility for your actions. Sorry if I over simplify things but in the end isn't that really the way to
make the masses understand? oh and keep it to a 20 second sound bite since our attention spans are that of a gnat nowadays.

Rant was just beginning but don't want to go too crazy on everyone. Take care and help each other out once in a while and things can only get better.

[simplyconnected]

I didn't hit on one of the MOST important things, here...
Inside ten minutes, I can pump enough energy to take me nearly 300 miles. Who is going to wait four hours to fill batteries? If you're out of town, might as well get a room while you wait.

Pat, I opened this thread so you CAN rant. We all have classic cars and daily drivers because they are important to us. The world always changes but Washington is shooting themselves in the foot while concentrating on stupid issues instead of the real important things during a world pandemic. America has lost 400,000 lives while Washington is harping on ONE RUSSIAN who was poisoned but never died. I say, God was on his side. - Dave

[Eric S]

This is what happen when you govern by ideology rather than common sense.
As said above, mankind is the problem. Too much people. Should stop behaving like a virus, trying to gain ground, expand. Some are even seriously looking at going to other planets !

[Pat in Ma]

Eric,

So right, Mankind is the worst "virus" imaginable. We'll completely destroy this planet by over populating it, Then if we manage to
get to another planet able to sustain life we'll just do it all over again because we've forgotten the basic rule of history and learning
from it to avoid making the same mistakes. But man in general is stupid, always thinking we know better, then mother nature comes
along to give us a swift kick in the behind to straighten us out but the kick doesn't make it to the brain so in the end we don't learn the lesson.

Dave,

I so totally agree with you on the whole charging time versus fill the tank. Being a truck driver I have seen numerous Tesla
drivers sleeping in rest areas attached to Tesla branded super chargers and they still wait hours. Guess it's okay in the spring, summer
and fall but has to suck doing it this time of year. Then of course as you pointed out, the electricity has to come from somewhere and
our current grid will never stand up to the draw of everyone switching. then the whole making, recycling and disposal of the hazardous batteries.
Heck, not sure about everyone else's areas but around here it's hard to find places to recycle or dispose of regular or any rechargeable
batteries at times. Then don't get me started about trying to recycle cfl's and led bulbs all containing mercury, if they want to make some
good common sense laws then lets make the manufacturers take these items back to recycle and reuse. Otherwise it's up to us, sorry to
say this but, way too many people are just to freaking lazy to put forth the effort.

Anyway, that's enough of spewing my useless opinion. I really hope your all holding things together and that soon we will turn a solid corner
on all the crap going on right now. Then we can get back out to enjoying our classics and each others company. Take care and wishing you all
the very best!

[scumdog]

Very well said Dave.
Our government is going down the "No more fossil fuel cars' road, I believe the target date is 2030.

A bold statement by our 'leaders but devoid of proper forethought in my opinion.

The electric cars are unfairly favoured by the government in that they are not taxed like fossil fuel vehicles are - nor do they pay any fuel tax (which is massive percentage of the 'at-pump' cost of fuel here in NZ)
This I suspect is to incentivise people into buying electric or hybrid vehicle - but these are very expensive compared to petrol or diesel powered vehicles.in NZ and in any case our infrastructure is not geared to cope with a massive influx of electric or hybrid vehicles.

Right, I'll now step down from my soap box!

[OX1]

Can hardly keep our electric grid up with current usage.
https://www.jerseyshoreonline.com/oc...-ocean-county/

Even if you go 100% home solar, you have to pump into the grid during the day and get it back at night.
Or you can transfer the entire cost of manufacturing, storing, and transmitting electric power to the consumer
with "power walls" or other storage units.

I have enough crap to do, I don't want to also become "the" power company (and don't want today's batteries in my
car, let alone in my house).

[simplyconnected]

Michigan has no toll roads. They only charge when crossing bridges (to Canada or over Great Lakes). The main reason is, Michigan is not a state people go through to get to another state. So, our roads are supported by our gasoline tax and registration fees.

If we go with electric cars, I foresee toll roads coming our way. There's no way they can fairly raise taxes on electricity for road usage. Instead of giving credit for using electric 'fuel' they're going to assess greater fees for road maintenance and construciton.

It's kinda the same from when we had telephone taxes, then everyone went with mobile (cell) phones and 'voice over internet' (VOIP) through the computer. Our phone taxes were high and so was land line usage. Since I'm retired and next to my home phone, I have used Magic Jack for many years through my computer for under $3/month. I used to pay AT&T (Bell Telephone) a lot more than that just in taxes.

There was rumblings about a 'carbon tax'. I don't know how that will work, either. - Dave

[frank58]

There's no way they can fairly raise taxes on electricity for road usage. Dave

Ha ha...you said "fairly"..... was that meant to be sarcastic?