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oil pressure problem on a 430

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  • oil pressure problem on a 430

    Just installed a rebuilt 430 and have very little oil pressure and only one head is getting oil and very little at that. This motor was rebuilt 6 years ago and was never installed, I bought it as kind of a basket case. Motor was in a create and all the parts where in the trunk Any ideas?

  • #2
    You might try contacting Theo at the MEL forum http://ford-mel-engine.com/index.php It's not a real active place but there are some knowledgeable guys there. Good luck, Bob C

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    • #3
      I bought a 430 that had an engine that had been rebuilt 25 years ago and never run. What I found when I pressurized the oil system before starting it was that several of the oil galley plugs had not been installed, particularly the ones at the back of the block above the cam. There is also another at the front of the block behind the cam gear. I would check these.
      Carl

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      • #4
        Are you running the original 430cid "vaccum assist" oil pump?

        Or did you do away with it (like most) & install a regular 352-390cid oil pump with a new (shorter) drive shaft?
        sigpic
        The 1960 Ford Thunderbird. The WORLD'S most wanted car....

        VTCI Member#6287.

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        • #5
          I Don't know, There is a extra tube that comes off the bottom of the pump. I don't know if thats stock of after market.

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          • #6
            If it's not the galley plugs ...

            check to make sure you have a good seal at the the pump and the pickup and that there is sufficient clearance between the pickup screen and the bottom of the pan. Could also be incorrectly installed cam bearings. Not that familiar with the MEL's so I can't say for sure, but it could also be a pressure relief valve issue. Could also be to much bearing clearance on the rods and mains. If the MEL forum has a tech section I would check there first. Are you using a 1/2 inch drill to prime? Turning the right direction? Mike

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            • #7
              I used a 3/8 drill to prime but it was all it could do to spin the pump.

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              • #8
                You really need ...

                a half inch drill if you don't want to burn up the 3/8, and if the MEL is like the FE you need to turn it counter clockwise. Check your manual or online for Dist rotation. Mike
                Last edited by gaffney1951; November 28th, 2011, 10:49 PM.

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                • #9
                  skikemp, I have to commend you for doing the correct tests before you run into trouble (an ounce of prevention...). Redstangbob, partsetal (Carl), tbird430 (Jon), and gaffney1951 (Mike) all have lots of experience with FE's and MEL engine. They are very similar.

                  Your engine must have plenty of oil or it won't last long. Buy a cheap oil gauge and screw it into one of the oil plugs on the side. If the drill motor turns hard, you should see lots of pressure on the gauge. (Pressure IS resistance to flow.)

                  I suggest you pull your rocker arm shafts off (take 20 pictures of this process) and pay attention to the notch on the lower front of each shaft. Then, slide each rocker arm off. Look for obvious galling on the shaft. Wire brush each rocker and run a small drill through the oil holes (my Y-Block arms had two holes each). Then pull the end plugs off the shafts. (I drilled and tapped a 10-32 hole in one plug end, screwed in a screw and used that to pull the plug out.) Do that to each shaft, and run a rod through to knock out the opposite plugs. You can tighten and leave the screw in after you're done. My shafts were a mess with what looked like heavy black grease inside. I replaced both shafts.

                  Both the 352 and 430 have the same firing order (1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8) and both distributors rotate counterclockwise (looking down). Before re-assembly, run your 1/2" drill motor in reverse on the oil pump drive shaft, and see if oil comes up to each head. I have a sneakin' suspicion it does, but dirt has packed all your rocker holes shut. If you don't get oil at all, I will go with Mike's suggestion that the cam bearings were installed wrong.

                  Sometimes the rocker arms don't align straight with the shaft's oil holes on the bottom. We use a Dremmel tool with a skinny cutoff disk to widen the oil hole like this:

                  That way the rocker arm can be a little off either way, and still get plenty of oil.

                  I hope this helps. - Dave
                  My latest project:
                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  From: Royal Oak, Michigan

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                  • #10
                    Thank you All

                    I really appreciate all your guys help, It sure makes it easier to diagnose the problems. I uploaded a picture of the oil pump that came out of the motor, but it's not the same as the new one. I called Bakers Auto today and they said they never one like this. (Notice the lower pump) Any idea's?
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      Mike, it looks like you have an original 430 oil pump. They were made by A-C and they had a vacuum pump on the bottom with an oil pump on top.

                      The bad news is, they aren't available any more. I was at Howard Prout's and he showed me his because I had never seen such a thing...

                      Howard made the top (output) flange and 'snorkel' so he could run it in a bucket.

                      The horizontal flared tube is, 'vacuum in', and the short vertical tube is, 'vacuum out'.





                      Notice, "A-C" trademark on the bottom.
                      The good news is, you can replace this with an FE oil pump and shorter drive shaft (as tbird430, Jon suggested), and it will work just fine. That is what other 430 owners have done.
                      Hope this helps, and Thank You, Howard Prout for the pictures. - Dave
                      My latest project:
                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

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                      • #12
                        oil pressure problem on a 430

                        Check with Carl ~ partsetal here on the Forum. Send him a Private Message (PM) and see if he has one in stock. As Dave said, they are hard to come by, but he might have one. If not, check with Bob at Bob's Bird House in Delaware and the guys at the Bird Nest in Oregon. They all have parts cars and might have one. Also check with John Draxler of Thunderbird Ranch. John has a lot of parts. You can get the contact information by checking out the Advertisements Forum below this.

                        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                        The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                        • #13
                          One of the places I have found to be a good source for hard to find parts is Turner's Auto Wrecking, 4248 S.Willow Ave., Freso, CA 93725. That is where I found my spare oil/vacuum pump. Tel. 559-237-0918. They literally have thousands of older cars.
                          Last edited by Howard Prout; December 3rd, 2011, 10:47 AM.
                          sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

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                          • #14
                            oil pressure problem on a 430

                            Thank you, Howard! I have posted that information, including their website, and phone number, in the Advertisements Forum! Howard said this about them.

                            "If you want to see something mind blowing, go onto Google Earth and enter their address. Their spread is amazing. And I found them very knowledgeable. When I asked about a vacuum pump for a 430, the guy knew exactly what I was asking about. I was impressed."
                            Last edited by YellowRose; December 4th, 2011, 11:12 AM. Reason: Additional Information

                            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                            The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                            • #15
                              new pump

                              Ok Guys
                              I put in a new pump got 65 lbs pressure at the new gauge but still no oil in the heads (well very little in the drivers side) but none in the passager side. I did pull the intake and run the oil pump with a 1/2 drill and got oil in all the lifters. Any ideas before I pull out the motor and check the cam bearings?
                              Last edited by skikemp; December 4th, 2011, 03:35 PM.

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