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A 430MEL Tri-Power Carb!

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  • #16
    repost it... 430MEL.....
    1st off i need to say i dont own the car iam posting about. it belongs to my wifes cousin. he also doesnt do computers.......
    he and i both belong to a local pensacola car club PANHANDLE CRUISERS. HE actually has a full "chicken coop" of birds.
    1957, the "the ghost" 1960, 2-64's, 1 convert and 1 hardtop, both baby blue. an 84 with a fully built race H&Moody engine. and one of the "boat's" 75-77.
    posting to let ya kow there is a 430 MEL 400 H.P. super marauder with tri-power build by holman& moody ALIVE AND RUNNING!!!!
    was a former pace car,with holly 2300 carbs, 7 qt oil pan with baffles. black leather interior, moroccan ivory(j code)exterior. has factory A/C and positrac rear end. it also came with a "spare" engine, which reside in cousin bills garage, on a stand))))the pic is me with HIS bird. he took it to the new orleans tbird national show............was the hit of the show.
    Last edited by YellowRose; September 19th, 2014, 11:12 AM. Reason: pics to big. Took them out.. Resized in original post

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    • #17
      352tb430 and I had the opportunity to really look this setup over at the VTCI International in New Orleans on Saturday afternoon of the meet. Here's a few observations I have about what we found:

      1. The carbs on the setup were C1AE's, i.e. the "cut-off" Holley 2300s, that were modified by cutting off the straight portion of the gasket ledge. The air cleaner had been modified by pop-riveting plates over the rear of the carb air horn openings in order to block off space due to the "cut off" base.
      2. The air cleaner was also modified by grinding a notch into it to clear the rear edge of the surge tank.
      3. Likewise, the upper rear half of the surge tank was modified to flatten it out at the seam line in order for the air cleaner to sit in place.

      I know they had problems with the fuel pump driving to NOLA - the outboard carbs had their lines disconnected and they had to install an inline electric pump to get there. When we were driving to Biloxi, MS on I-10 the day after the meet they were on the side of the road somewhere between NOLA and the turnoff for the highway to Gulfport, MS, I assume, due to fuel pump issues.

      I didn't get to look under the car (I hate shows in parking garages - too dark to look under cars) at the oil pan, but it certainly was interesting to finally get a chance to physically see and touch one of these rarities.
      Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
      Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
      Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

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      • #18
        Hi just wanted to update. The ivory 430 super marauder is still around. I purchased it this summer. If anyone can provide any more information about the car PLEASE contact me. Id like to know about the Holman- Moody connection. Glen

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        • #19
          Hi does anyone know how to contact the gentleman who wrote about the Moroccan ivory super marauder convertible or alan task who looked the car over in 2014. Thanks glen

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          • #20
            Hi Glen, the Guest who posted regarding your Tbird is no longer a member of this Forum. I have tried to make contact with him, to no avail. I have also tried to make contact with Bill Bass, but have not been able to do so. Bill should certainly know a lot about that Tbird, since, I gather, he used to own it. I have tried to contact the Panhandle Cruisers Car Club and have had no luck with that either. Their email address no longer works. As for Alan Tast, I know him, and have informed him regarding you now owning that Tbird. Perhaps he will come up on the Forum and comment. I am about to send you a Private Message so look for it... Ray

            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
            The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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            • #21
              Thanks for the reply. William Bass passed away last year. I bought the car from a gentleman who purchased all his birds from the estate. He had no information on it. I contacted mr. Rotella at the registry it seam there's an abnormality about the production date. The last person i am aware off who looked the car over was mr. Task. I talked to Lee Holman he ssid they wouldn't have vin number for customer cars. I wondering where the pace car - Holman moody connection came from. I believe there's something special about this car. I hope to find out. Thanks guys for all your help. Glen Navoy
              please bare wiih me terrible on a computer

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              • #22
                Glen and I have enjoyed a good talk on the phone and we will have more of that later today. Now I know why I have not been able to get in contact with Bill Bass, thanks to what Glen told me. He was able to talk with Lee Holman regarding that Tbird. Lee, being a youngster back then, probably does not know a lot about it. As far as we know, no Tbirds ever left the production line with that carb system on it. Or Lincoln either that I am aware of. However, there are reports that some Lincolns, like some Squarebirds, have shown up with the the Tri-Power system in use. In 1958 only Mercury's were being made with it. Here is what Wiki says regarding the Super Marauder triple 2 barrel carb system. "Exclusive to Mercury, a Super Marauder triple two-barrel carburetor became the first mass-produced engine sold in the United States with an advertised 400 hp (298 kW; 406 PS) output; the option was available on all Mercury vehicles. For 1959, the Super Marauder option was discontinued." So that option was only available on the 1958 Mercury Marauder.

                There is something strange about the Axle Code also. It looks like an A and A was not used that year for Axles. C was for the Equa Lock (Posi-track) axle. Glen is going to clean off that data plate and take better pictures of it so it can be seen better.

                As for it being a "special" car, it is, in that it is one of just a few 1960 Squarebirds still on the road with an operational Super Marauder Tri-Power Carb system on it. Glen said the underside of the car is as clean as a whistle, or words to that effect. He said the convertible top is working well and that he "exercises" it a lot since he drives it a fair amount also. He said the car has been well cared for, but the paint is showing its age a bit. We will be talking more later today.
                Last edited by YellowRose; November 12th, 2020, 11:58 PM.

                Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                • #23
                  Hi ray I was looking at a vin decoder it seems they used 2 codes for August h and v. Wouldn't v mean a late production August 17 1960. Also it said an a axle code is a 3:56 traction lock. Thoughts. Glen

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                  • #24
                    Hi Glen,If you have seen what I posted above earlier in the day, you might notice that I just took a lot of information I had posted out of that post. Because I have different information now. And yes, a Date Code V would indicate a August 1960 production Tbird. As for the A Axle Code, I have not seen that. I see that a C=Equa Lock according to the VTCI information. Now might be a good time to call me if you are free!

                    Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                    The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                    Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                    • #25
                      Ray I'll try and call you tonight...hectic day. Glen

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                      • #26
                        Okay and I should have new information for you!

                        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                        The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                        • #27
                          I have been in contact with Alan Tast regarding this subject. He is very busy with several projects but took time to respond to this subject. Here is what he had to say. BTW, if you do not own his book, you should get a copy of it. Everyone who owns a '55-'66 Tbird should read his book and add it to your collection.

                          "The Mercury Marauder tri-power was added by a previous owner. I think Bass told me he installed it when we were at the '14 VTCI International in New Orleans. It's interesting to note that it did not have the correct carburetors for the Marauder package with full-circle airhorns when displayed in New Orleans - it had modified Holley 2100s from a '61 Galaxie tri-power setup, with the bottom of the cast-aluminum air cleaner modified to work with the "half-moon" airhorn configuration used for FE-series tri-power carbs. If I remember correctly this was explained to me by Bill in that when he obtained the setup the original carbs were long gone.

                          I have no reason to believe this was a H-M/NASCAR setup or built from a leftover '59 'shell,' nor have I seen evidence that can suggest this (think roll bar, for instance, for use in Convertible class entries). There have been more than a few '59-'60 'Birds that owners have claimed were "NASCSAR"-prepped only because they had a 430 or a manual transmission. Fact of the matter is the cars that were built did not have full interiors since they were purpose-built for racing and not to be street-legal to begin with. I still have yet to see authentication for those cars claiming to have actually been touched by H-M. For 1960 H-M had gone to using full-size Fords for their builds - primarily "Starliner" hardtops as they were more aerodynamic and were offered from the factory with the 360-hp 352 HiPo engine. The '60 'Bird platform was not pursued for 'new' builds as it could not be ordered with the 360-hp 352, not easily modified due to its unibody construction, and even with the 430 and a non-stock manual transmission setup it still could not keep up with the slicker and lighter Starliners or stripped-down full-size Fairlane 2-doors.

                          H-M and other racing teams/builders mostly avoided '59 full-size Fords in favor of the '57-'58 Fairlanes, and some went with the H-M-built '59 'Birds in part because of the "back-door" dealing that was done to skirt the AMA racing ban, along with their legitimate use of being equipped with the big 430 while full-size Fords could only get the 300-horse 352 (NASCAR would not allow anything but a 'stock production' engine displacement in cars during this period). The '59 full-size cars were virtually 'rolling barn doors' compared to the '59 GM and MoPar bodies then in use. Quite frankly, I'm not aware of any new '60 T-birds being built up by H-M for Grand National/Convertible racing, but that doesn't preclude building or modifying a car for a customer for competition in lesser divisions, sanctioning bodies like USAC, or single owners. The '59 'Birds they did prep typically were fitted with '60 trim to update them appearance-wise, from what I've read, in order to let them run for another few years as part of a 3-year rule for a model to run in Grand National events.

                          The serial number of 185775 tells me that it is a late-production car. I have no reason to doubt that it has a month code of 'V' for August '60 as I have documented late cars and received VTCI Owner Surveys with 'V' built in the mid-late August '60 timeframe: that tracks with how they would apply the second-year coding to distinguish from early production, and tells me there may have been some mid- or upper-level confusion as to how serial numbers, scheduling and assignments for production, etc. were being handled in the midst of preparing for shut-down and change-over for '61 production. I have a photo of the data plate taken during the show and it has the same blueish marks present in the Rotella-provided photo, along with painted door wire guards indicating the car was repainted at one time. The photo I took and the one you provided via John Rotella looks like a legitimate, original plate with factory rivets to me."


                          Alan H. Tast, AIA, LEED AP
                          Technical Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
                          http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net
                          Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"


                          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                          The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                          https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                          • #28
                            Hi I'd like to thank Ray and Alan for their time and knowledge. I can't find the frame serial number, perhaps they were painted over. Have been able to post pictures, I'll send them to Ray separately. Thanks glen

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                            • #29
                              Glen, I accidentally deleted those pix on my phone! Durnnnnn! The one pic I saved showed the drivers side of the cowl area and that stamping should be on the passenger side. Send those pix to my email address if you will. I will send you that address in a PM, but you should have it in your Welcome PM that was posted to you when your joined. John said he thinks that you would have to take the cowl off to find that stamping. I am not sure...

                              Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                              The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                              Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                              https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                              • #30
                                Glen has sent me pix of the engine bay and one of his Tbird. In the information posted above for Alan Tast, he covered the subject of the Date Code V on that data plate. As he said, he has records of other 1960 Tbirds with a Data Plate Date Code of V. The other curious thing is the Axle Code A (and it certainly looks like an A). On everything I have seen regarding 1960 Tbirds, A is not listed as an Axle Code, but C is. However, on the 1961 Bulletbird A IS listed as an option.
                                1961 Bulletbird Rear Axle Codes A 3.56:1 Equa Lock (Posi-Track). Which is exactly what Glen's 1960 Tbird has on it. Keep in mind that this Tbird was scheduled for production on 17 August, 1960, but according to my 1960 Production Run records it appears to have been built on the 29th of August, 1960. There was several days in August during the week when they had shut down the line according to my records. So maybe they were behind in production. Just slightly a week before 1960 Production was shut down on the 9th of September, 1960 this Tbird went down the production line. It could be that this Tbird might have been a Special Order, with a request for the 3:56:1 Equa Lock Axle... Or perhaps they were running low on the other axles and put this one in instead. We will probably never know. Interestingly, according to what I have read, production of the 1961 Bulletbird on the Wixom production line did not start until October 3rd, 1960...Does anyone else have a very late production 1960 Squarebird with the Axle Code=A on their Data Plate? I am sure Alan and "Fuz" would love to have a copy of that! Here are the pix that Glen sent me.

                                Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                                The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                                Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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