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brake issues 63 t bird

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  • vermbird
    Experienced
    • Jul 22 2009
    • 265

    brake issues 63 t bird

    well a few weeks ago i found that the brake pedal on my 63, power brakes, had now gone almost to the floor before the brakes applied. so I took off all the wheels thinking that maybe the self adjusters were not adjusting. indeed the star wheel and lever were kind of worn out and not engaging. so I changed out all the star wheel adjusters and levers, had some issues with the self adjuster cables maybe being stretched out, went over that issue with the group. while I had thing apart i found oil at the bottom of the pass side rear backing plate, so pulled both rear axles, pulled the differential, replaced both axle oil seals and cleaned and painted the differential, (heavy mother !) Also found leaky Right front wheel cylinder an replaced it. Put it all back together. Bled the brakes, put the drums back on so they just rubbed the shoes. went to drive it today, and still the brake pedal when pressed goes down almost the floor before engages. i will start by rebleeding the brakes, using a brake spoon to maybe tighten the "self-adjuster" a bit thru the access notch. i will pull off the master a bit and see if there is leakage out of the booster. Or should i check the master/booster first to look for leaks?. does it sound like a booster problem with the pedal going down so much, cant really pump it up as if there was air in the brake lines. sorry for the wordiness of this thread, its Saturday nite and don't want to watch TV , more fun on the T bird sites. the brakes were fine the last time i drove the car about a month before this all happened.
  • jopizz
    Super-Experienced


    • Nov 23 2009
    • 8296

    #2
    If you are confident that you got all the air out then you most likely have a leak. Since the shoes are rubbing the drums they are adjusted close enough where the pedal would not go to the floor. I would pull the master cylinder first.

    John
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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    • vermbird
      Experienced
      • Jul 22 2009
      • 265

      #3
      ok, i will pull the master back off the booster and look for a leak. might rebleed the brakes one more time to be sure. will check it out in the morning. thanks.once more. i just sent a a thread on my newly discovered dual master cylinder i had on the 60 yrs ago for safety sake but put original single back for originality. Bendix 11488, don't know if its disk/'drum or drum/ drum, but pretty sure its for power brakes. according to rock, fits a 68 mustang.

      Comment

      • vermbird
        Experienced
        • Jul 22 2009
        • 265

        #4
        ok so i pulled the master back a bit, there is some fluid staining the center piston and retaining clip and a small amount. of fluid in the booster itself, but not contaminated a lot. how can i check the booster for proper function? I guess even a little fluid at the back of the master means a leak. shall I just get a new master or find a rebuild kit for it. i have a brake hone, but rock does not sell a master repair kit as far as i an see, either does amazon. maybe I'll try NAPA although i can buy a Delco master on rock for $31.79 less discount. might not be worth the trouble to rebuild the old one, this is for my 63 of course, single master. thanks.

        Comment

        • jopizz
          Super-Experienced


          • Nov 23 2009
          • 8296

          #5
          For $32 it's not really cost effective to rebuild it yourself even if you can find a kit. First off you will have to hone it to a standard size and then find a rebuild kit to match. Not worth the trouble in my opinion. There is no such thing as a small leak when it comes to brakes. Not only are you losing fluid but you are sucking in air also. It's hard to check for proper booster operation with a leaking master cylinder. Replace that first, bleed the system and then check that you have a solid pedal that doesn't change with the engine running.

          John
          John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

          Thunderbird Registry #36223
          jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

          https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

          Comment

          • vermbird
            Experienced
            • Jul 22 2009
            • 265

            #6
            ok will buy the rock auto master cylinder for $30 or so bucks. do you or anyone have a "favorite" brake bleeder system. my old Miti-vac doesn't hold vacuum anymore. there is a Phoenix system that pumps fluid thru the wheel cylinders back to the master to let air out thru the master, it is $50 and looks like it will last just a couple of times. the all metal one is 3x that price. harbor freight selsl one for 20$ + that is the squeeze type that sucks' air out thru the wheel cylinder. then there are the canister types that hook up to the master and fill the system like the MOtive. but i dont know if their adapters will fit square bird single cylinders or the single cylinder on my 63 with fruit jar lid. would also like to use it on my 2008 mercedes and my 2001 tahoe.

            Comment

            • jopizz
              Super-Experienced


              • Nov 23 2009
              • 8296

              #7
              My favorite method is to have a helper pump and hold down the pedal while I open the bleeder. In lieu of that I just connect a hose to the bleeder and put it in a jar or bottle with some brake fluid in it. Make sure the hose is fully submerged to the bottom of the bottle. When you push down the pedal the air will be forced out and go to the top of the fluid but only fluid will be sucked back in. Usually three or four times per wheel will suffice. Just make sure the master cylinder doesn't go dry. You can certainly spend money for a better system but I've never seen the need.

              John
              John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

              Thunderbird Registry #36223
              jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

              https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

              Comment

              • vermbird
                Experienced
                • Jul 22 2009
                • 265

                #8
                yes thanks, joe. i usually have a helper pump it up in the car wi;th; the pedal and i open the bleeder and then close it when they hold the pedal down to the floor. sometimes i don't have a helper. i guess there are lots of way to do it. the mitivac i had sucked the fluid into a plastic cup. thanks.

                Comment

                • simplyconnected
                  Administrator
                  • May 26 2009
                  • 8772

                  #9
                  I'm with John in that I don't use a lot of tools. I have the essentials for building an entire engine and tools for working on suspension but all those specialty tools mentioned in the Shop Manual, I don't need nor do I have room to store tools that I rarely use.

                  Brake bleeding and M/C bench bleeding is no exception. I have used the old brake lines, cut and bent to empty back into the reservoirs, instead of the plastic 'kit' that is included in most M/C boxes. For bleeding the system, my wife's foot works better than many high priced tools out there. To expedite the process, I've learned to crack open the bleeder valve and stick my finger over the opening while she slowly 'works' the brake pedal. When the air stops, I tighten the valve. Is my method messier? Perhaps but I put a pan under the bleeder valve and I don't use the plastic hose. Plain water easily washes DOT-3 away. - Dave
                  Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  From: Royal Oak, Michigan

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