1959 T-Bird Build

[keith]

Sorry for the delay in updating the thread. I had some non-car issues come up.

The pictures are of the repair pieces for the frame behind the front wheels. They are made out of 16ga in 2 pieces then welded together. The last 2 pictures are of the repair pieces just setting ontop of the rusted out area. I am going to weld those in this week.

Tomorrow I am going to pick up a quickie stamping die a friend of mine cutout for me with his cnc plasma table.
I hope to press out the inspection covers for the holes in the new frame pieces. The covers will be pressed out of 18ga.

[simplyconnected]

In cars with frames, we call this a Torque Box (the area where the front subframe meets the side rails. As the name suggests, there is a lot of twisting stress that takes place here (like when your front tire goes up a steep driveway at an angle).

keith, your pieces look beautiful and they fit just right. I think Ford made the original pieces far too thin. That's why everyone has a chronic problem in this area.

PERSONAL OPINION--> I would have done it in 12-ga., and wrapped it around in a 'U'-shape with 1/4" buttons drilled for spot welding. All edge welds should be lapped. Covers may be made from simple urethane, cast in a plaster form lined with bread bag plastic (polyethylene). They may have smaller metal centers for rigidity. - my two cents. Thanks for reading. - Dave

[keith]

Hello Dave,

I understand what you are saying about the 12ga. . I had a heck time putting the crown in the 16ga. where the outer rocker attaches to it. I don't think I can form that thick of a piece of metal. I had planned on putting a spotwelded fishplate (for lack of not knowing what the correct term is) behind the repair and then butt welding the seam too. I will take pictures as I go. I feel it will be a good strong repair.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[simplyconnected]

keith, use a little heat. A propane torch works wonders when forming metal. A cutting torch works even faster, but it isn't necessary. You can do all the flat pieces individually:
Make your top and bottom pieces 3/4" longer. Weld the vertical piece in place, then weld the top piece at the frame-end, then heat and hammer the flange over the upright (forming a lap). Do the same with the bottom, weld the seams and you're done. You can grind it to look pretty if you want. Bottom line is, it's much stronger than original. You can flange the top & bottom pieces in a vise if you want. Just heat and serve.

The vertical piece can run a lot farther down to cover the holes in your frame (rocker). Keeping it one piece (with that kick in the front) will make it even stronger. Covering the original frame is ok. In fact, drill a few 1/4" holes to 'spot weld' it to the old piece along the way before you do your seams.

Thanks for graciously considering my opinions. I don't mean to bust on your job. I just think Ford could have done it better in the first place. In other words, use a much heavier metal than Ford did. Your Thunderbird frame problem is shared by many members. - Dave

EDIT... Fish plate is as good a term as any. There are areas in a frame that need to be beefed-up. At Ford, we spot weld a separate heavy plate to the inside before welding the two halves together. That plate is called a "boot" (I don't know why). They are spot welded in the 'boot welders' in Dearborn Frame Plt. They actually put a hole in the frame so you can see if the boot is in there (it's that critical). A limit switch 'feels' through that hole, and if the boot is missing the two frame-halves won't get welded together.

[Anders]

Keith: Keep up the good work! It is very interesting ( and edjucating ) to see your progress on you car. Much appreciated!

[keith]

I took Dave's advice and made some new repair pieces out of 12 ga. It was the right thing to do. Thanks Dave for the advice.

I also ran by my buddy's place oak-n-iron and picked up the die he cut out for me on his cnc plasma table.

It worked out real nice. I hope to have the repair pieces welded in this week.

[byersmtrco]

Thats what I'm talkin' about !!!!

You are doing it right !!!!

It's hard with these rust buckets.

"Rust Free Calif Car" My ___ !!!

Thats what I want to do eventually. Keep my conv as it is (sleeper/driver)
Do a frame up on a 59 (conv or h-t - don't care) 430 pref, but 352 ok.
And have a nice 65 or 6 as another driver.
At that point . . . Just shoot me.

[simplyconnected]

Keith, you really do nice work! Sorry to put you through all that work again (but I'm glad you did). Now your sub-frame and rockers can handle MUCH more torque. Some unibody cars twist so bad they crack the windshield.

Torque boxes (on cars with frames), are 12-ga. steel clam shells, flux-core welded together. If Ford used the same gauge steel on Thunderbirds we wouldn't be talking about it, now.

16 gauge steel is ~.060", but you went up to .1046" which is wicked strong and welds much easier. - Dave

[keith]

Thanks for the nice words. I feel much better about the repair, as this is going to be a driver.

[Anders]

Don´t want to complain or so, but for my own learning I have a question.
Why did you do this cut and bending? Wouldn´t it just be easier and cleaner to just weld a rectangular peice on the backside and just use that as guide? And kind of keep the look ( like in the lower picture ) in the process?

[keith]

Got the right side welded in tonight. Cut out the rusted damage. Welded a tack strip inside the torque box. Plug welded the tack strip to the torque box and then the repair piece to the tack strip, then lap welded it solid to the frame.

[Guest]

Hey Keith,
Now that's what I'm talking about! That looks better than factory. You do good work my friend!!!
Richard D. Hord

[simplyconnected]

Beautiful! (Now, keep going down the rockers.) Your joints are really good. I like the idea that you can weld inside, through your cover plate hole.

[keith]

I got the left side welded in tonight.

Dave , before I start on the rockers I have some repair to the front fenders from some earlier accidents. I have to finish things in order or I get frustrated. I know, I have issues.

Richard,thank you for the compliment.

[simplyconnected]

...I have to finish things in order or I get frustrated...

I'm in good company 'cause I do the same. Hey I wanted to mention, you correctly call it 'plug' welding. We all know 'spot welds' are produced from copper points. I incorrectly refer to plug welds as spot welds out of, force of habit.

Since I see no signs of flux or AC spatter, you probably MIG welded your peices with gas. What type and size wire & gas mix? I agree with Richard, the welds look great.