turn signal and brake light woes

[pkingco]

Hi Dave. Sorry I missed your reply, but I believe I have sorted out the brakes for now. They were locking up after driving. The shoes were adjusted far too tight. I referred to the manual and backed off 14 clicks and that seems to have done it. I need to do a longer road test to be sure they are still not grabbing. The fronts are cool 90 degrees on return, rears are reading 120, so I backed off one more click there. I don't love the way the brakes feel overall, and am seriously considering converting to disk brakes. I've followed your posts and others on this, and it seems like the way to go. I'll drive it a bit and see how I feel.

[simplyconnected]

14 clicks! No wonder they were dragging.
The upgrade to front power disk brakes is by far the best move for your 'bird. (I've never heard of anyone who went back to shoe brakes.)
Let us know what you decide. - Dave

[pkingco]

Well, I tightened them down first, then backed off the recommended amount. Probably about 5 or 6 clicks more open than before. Time for a test drive, then ponder the disc brakes. Thanks again.

[simplyconnected]

Shoe brakes are ridiculously simple and are designed to float inside the drum. Ford brake shoes are not held at the bottom but they are loosely held to the back plate with pins and springs. That big anchor bolt above the wheel cylinder carries all the stopping power.

New shoes rarely follow the contour of the drum unless they are 'arced' (something I haven't seen auto parts stores do in decades). Consequently, frequent adjustments must be done as new shoes 'bed-in'. That is why brake shops normally offer a 'free adjustment' after installing new shoes.

Realizing that there will be adjustments, I set my new brake shoes with very little drag (it's more like a 'scuff'). Setting them too tight is counterproductive because your new shoes will get too hot, which may take the heat-treat out of the springs and expand your brake fluid. The break-in period should happen over time, with NO panic stops. Remember, the shoes are contacting a small surface area of the drum until the two conform.

So rather than counting clicks, go by feel. Yes, tighten the adjustment then back it off until the brakes are slightly scuffing the drum. Your brake pedal height will tell you when it's time for the next adjustment. As it goes, braking power will improve. - Dave

[pkingco]

So, my brakes continued to lock up, so I was quite certain it had to do with the push rod length. Unfortunately, adjusting the eccentric in a manual transmission brake/clutch setup is nearly impossible without pulling everything apart. And I mean the steering column too. So I reached out to the Facebook Squarebirds group and found someone who owns a 3 on the tree '59. He had the same issue when he replaced his master cylinder. He advised removing the master and grinding a small amount off the outer edges of the ball at the end of the push rod, saying that it gets stuck on the outer edges of the MC piston, thereby preventing it from returning fully. I did that this morning and it worked like a charm! When I removed the nuts on the MC, it jumped back like it was spring-loaded, due to the pressure the rod was applying to the piston. After I shaved the piston a bit, the MC piston inserted back into place without any resistance. I had to adjust the brakes again before testing, and the binding problem is solved. But the brakes are pretty dicey. I bled them again and found some air, but that did not make a huge improvement on stopping. I have to put a lot of force on the pedal to get effective braking. I'm going to removed the hubs and inspect the shoes for glazing (that's what it feels like), and if that is not the problem look further into the MC. I feel as thought I am losing pressure when I hold the pedal down.

[cuul59]

Speaking from the experience of owning 4 of these over the years, I found braking performance to be an unfortunate attribute. IMHO the best solution, short of a disc brake conversion, is converting the Kelsey Hayes under dash unit to an under-hood firewall mounted power booster with a dual master cylinder. It’s a pretty easy, and low cost conversion and still looks very original to most people. These power boosters work better and don’t require you to be double jointed should they ever need servicing….and you can’t beat the increase in safety with a dual master. My brakes have never been better.
Neil

[simplyconnected]

I agree with Neil. Buy a 8" two-stage booster with a 1" bore dual piston master cylinder. I only know of one company that sells the correct firewall bracket:

#9787 1958-60 Ford Thunderbird Power Brake Booster Combo – ABS Power Brake

This 'kit' comes with a proportioning valve, which is needed for disk brakes, but I would mount that valve on the fender apron so you can get to #8 spark plug.

I hope you consider retrofitting disk brakes because the OEM drum setup is sorely insufficient to stop a Squarebird. Adding front power disk brakes is hands down the best upgrade you can do for your SB. - Dave

[Wouter]

Does this Thunderbird Power Brake Combo fit on my A/C car ?

Thanks,
Wouter

[jopizz]

Yes, the bracket will clear your A/C condenser.

John

[jopizz]

Oops, I mean the evaporator.

John