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Smoke Issue On My 1960 Bird

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  • Smoke Issue On My 1960 Bird

    C8466668-E1F9-44BC-A7E1-4C25BCC4B318.png 8F0EEB2A-D694-4942-9517-BFE39A0280FA.jpeg 2FD419CE-9A82-43C3-A699-8E8CBAB9078D.jpeg image1.jpg image3.jpg
    I just picked up my 1960 bird from the shop and we drove it home today. It had some extensive work, in part to help with overheating. A new radiator, expansion tank, and hoses were installed along with the leaking manifold gaskets being replaced. Drove it home about 14 miles, and gauge went up to the “P” on TEMP. When we pulled in garage noticed what looked like some smoke coming from under hood. Raised hood and these photos show where we saw the smoke coming from. Well, it doesn’t seem like the radiator solves the problem, I’ve been told before that maybe flushing the engine block is what it may need. Has anyone any suggestions? Here is the video. Also, there is one hose I noticed that appears to be not connected to anything on one side I don’t remember noticing it like that before. What is it for and should it be connected to something else? Thanks for input! The last picture shows the hose that we found disconnected and blowing out smoke was previously attached to the Air Filter..
    Attached Files
    Starts
    April 5th, 2021
    Ends
    April 7th, 2021
    Last edited by YellowRose; April 7th, 2021, 11:03 PM.

  • #2
    Gina your video did not post. Can you call me? 210-875-1411. Thanks....

    Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
    The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
    Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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    • #3
      Smoke coming from the oil fill tube may not be an indication that it's overheating. Normally that's oil smoke due to worn valve seals or worn rings. The TEMP gauge going to P is not that big a deal. If it went to H and stayed there then I would be more concerned. The hose that goes to the oil cap is not original. Either it was added later or it's a later model engine with a PCV system. The shop your brought it to should have noticed the hose not being connected and fixed it. You have two problems. One is your engine may need to be rebuilt and the other is your mechanic has no clue what he's doing.

      John
      John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

      Thunderbird Registry #36223
      jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

      https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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      • #4
        I have added the 2 pix that were broken, but it would not let me delete the 2 X's. I was also able to convert the .mov (which vBulletin does not recognize) to .mp4 and upload it for you using the Attachment feature to upload the .mp4 file. I see that John ~ jopizz has seen your post and commented. Yesss, the mechanic should have caught that hose not being connected and reconnected it. As John said, that engine may be a later model that had the PCV conversion on it. Normally, you do not see that on an OEM 1960 352, if I am correct. I see what John said regarding the smoke coming from the oil cap...

        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
        The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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        • #5
          There are actually 2 hoses I was concerned about, I may have stated it in a bit of a confusing way, since I was pretty tired at the time. The hose from the oil cap was connected we just unhooked it to get a better look at the smoke. The other hose which is pretty thick like a radiator hose with no smoke in photo is more behind the air cleaner area near the part of engine bay closest to the front seats. Not sure what that should be connected to, it was laying down lose at one end not connected to anything there. It’s near where my air conditioning is but my air isn’t working right now.

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          • #6
            Okay, then that hose in the 4th picture with the hand on it is what you are talking about. It looks like it is coming between the AC plenum box on the firewall and the back of the air cleaner. It might be a vacuum hose that is not connected.

            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
            The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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            • #7
              I'm guessing that the big hose not connected is really a poor replacement for the road draft tube. It looks like
              the hose clamp is holding it on the back of the intake manifold where the road draft tube should be. Also would
              explain why it was left hanging down below the A/C box to vent out below the car when driving.

              Again, just my .02 so it doesn't mean much.

              Like John stated, it might be time for a rebuild if you're getting that much vapor from the breather. Compression
              and leak down test might be a good idea, but I'll let the real experts give you the best advice.

              Best of luck
              Last edited by Pat in Ma; April 7th, 2021, 08:58 AM. Reason: spelling issues
              Pat M.
              Monson, MA
              1959 HT Hickory Tan, Thunderbird registry #77617

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              • #8
                I agree that the hose that is disconnected is a replacement for the road draft tube which was originally metal. It should just hang down the back of the engine toward the ground. I thought the hose you were talking about was the smaller hose that goes from the oil cap to the air cleaner. That was added later on to suck the oil fumes back into the air cleaner to reburn. I would recommend a compression test also to determine the condition of your engine. As for the overheating I would not totally trust the gauge. I would use a heat gun to get an idea of the actual temperatures. The gauge could be way off.

                John
                John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                Thunderbird Registry #36223
                jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                • #9
                  I have two 1960's with the 352. One runs excessively hot and smokes out of everything crankcase related like yours once I shut it off. Would burn my finger touching the valve cover for 5 seconds. I have narrowed my issue down to one of two problems. Either the head gaskets are on wrong and cooling ports are misaligned, or my block coolant passages are very rusted and restricted. I have great compression and no oil smoke indicating bad valve seals. It never gets hot per the gauge in the dash, however gets 230-250 degrees thermal up top and like I mentioned will burn skin. My other 60' is not like that. Head gaskets are on the to do list before Carlisle this year.
                  Last edited by kowalj04; April 7th, 2021, 02:52 PM.
                  Jim Kowal
                  Thunderbird Registry #82613

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                  • #10
                    Thank you for all the input, it really helped me get some ideas on what was going on. I spoke with the mechanic am having it checked out again next week. A new wrinkle on the situation, my husband drove it again today when I was at work to let his brother have a look. It just randomly lost power while driving down the road at steady speed, he wasn’t breaking or anything. He said one minute it was running fine then the next it just shut off, no warning or spluttering at all. Then when he turned the key it started right back up. It hadn’t done that ever before since we’ve had it. Then just a bit later it was idling in the driveway running fine and it just lost power and shut off again. It also started right back up no problem. I should probably mention that earlier this year we had the carburetor rebuilt and a new fuel filter installed in the engine compartment also. Any ideas on what is causing this new issue and is it possibly related to the work we had done on having the manifold gaskets replaced?

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                    • #11
                      Could have the condenser in your distributor going bad. That can cause the random shut downs. If it is that, it will only get worse till it won't start at all.

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                      • #12
                        I will check into the condenser, thanks for the information. Been lucky so far that it started right back up, but it only has done it twice so far.

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                        • #13
                          I have let Chris ~ p38fighter know that his pix are broken. At least, that is what I am seeing.. X's... In talking with Gina, it does not appear to her, her Hubby or mechanic that it is an overheating problem she is experiencing. By all indications, with the new radiator, hoses, water pump, the gauge is NOT indicating it is overheating. The gauge stays at, or below the letter P in Temp even when it has been sitting, idling for long periods of time. So I am thinking of changing the title form Overheating to Smoke Issue... Gina has a good number of things to check out regarding it dying on them, and the possible smoke issue. She said that when she finally got the trunk opened, she found a lot of records on the car and the last record of any maintenance done on it, was back in 2000. So it is possible that this Tbird has been sitting for a good number of years without being run, or no maintenance being recorded as to having been done to it prior to Gina purchasing it.. Her mechanic is going to see what is causing the car to cut out on them as it has done twice so far. Derbird might be right about it being the condenser causing it. Or maybe points. I don't think it has the Pertronix on it. She appreciates the comments...

                          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                          The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                          https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Here's a diagram of the road draft tube. You can see the small bracket that attaches to the transmission bell housing. As mentioned it's pretty easy to make one using a scrap piece of metal. I've made them in the past and attached them using some epoxy like JB Weld.

                            John

                            road draft tube.jpg

                            John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                            Thunderbird Registry #36223
                            jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                            • #15
                              Just to throw this out there.. could it be a vapor lock? any changes in the fuel line routing?
                              Last edited by frank58; April 8th, 2021, 11:47 AM. Reason: I can't spell....

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