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  • Squarebird Production Info

    If you need any help decoding your Rot/Build Sheet please let me know. I am still trying to to obtain that information for the Squarebird years of production. If you are interested, let me know by email or PM...
    Last edited by YellowRose; November 23rd, 2019, 01:24 AM.

    Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
    The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
    Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

  • #2
    Hello YellowRose; I would like to know ? YIN# 0Y71Y191678 63AN5209W43 1960 TBird

    Thanks
    Garth

    Comment


    • #3
      Squarebird Production Info

      Hi Garth, I will need your Data Information underneath the VIN # on your data plate. I will get back with you after Christmas, but send that information to me, please.
      Last edited by YellowRose; November 23rd, 2019, 01:25 AM.

      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
      The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

      https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by YellowRose View Post
        Hi Garth, I will need your Data Information underneath the VIN # on your data plate. I will get back with you after Christmas, but send that information to me, please.

        Ray: My guess would be that he already gave it but not separated . ( 63A - N - 52 - 09W - 4 - 3 )

        Comment


        • #5
          Squarebird Production Info

          Martin, LMBO... Yesss! I was asleep at the switch on that one! I have it. Thanks for waking me up!
          Last edited by YellowRose; November 23rd, 2019, 01:25 AM.

          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
          The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

          https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by YellowRose View Post
            Martin, LMBO... Yesss! I was asleep at the switch on that one! I have it. Thanks for waking me up!
            No problem Ray , I know you have a lot on your plate.

            A Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year to you and Yours !

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by OUR5T8BIRD View Post
              Ray: My guess would be that he already gave it but not separated . ( 63A - N - 52 - 09W - 4 - 3 )
              Ray: Looking at this data info again, there must be a mistake on Garth's production date , post # 2 . Probably should be " 09H " ( August ) not W .

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by OUR5T8BIRD
                You got me on the production that late in the model year Ray. Of the 150 or so '60's listed in my directory, I have nothing with a production date with a ' W ' . Was of the understanding that the months went from " A " to " M " with ' I ' not being used . There must be another reason for the use of the " W" that late in the production year . The highest number I show has a production date of " H " which is August 1960 of course and " J " being September .

                As for the total production for 1960 , I have the Model year for 1960 from Ford " Automotive Assembly Division, General Office "
                showing total production quantity as 92,843 .
                Body type 63A , 2 Dr. hardtop as 78,447 ; Body type 76A , convertible as 11,860 ; And Body type 63B , 2 Dr. Golde Top as 2,536 . ( Yes, on paper it shows the Gold Top as " 63B " )
                It is confusing. I always assumed that First year of production indicates cars built in 1959 (Sept-Dec; J-M) and Second year of production indicates cars built in 1960 (Jan-Sept; N-W). Obviously that's not correct as Eric's car with that serial number was built in August of 1960 and not 1959.

                John
                Attached Files
                Last edited by jopizz; December 28th, 2017, 01:16 PM.
                John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                Thunderbird Registry #36223
                jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's a copy of the ROT from the first Squarebird I ever owned. It appears to have been built in August of 1960 also. I can only assume that any cars built after August of 1960 got the W date letter and were considered "second" year of production.

                  John
                  Attached Files
                  John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                  Thunderbird Registry #36223
                  jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                  https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jopizz View Post
                    Here's a copy of the ROT from the first Squarebird I ever owned. It appears to have been built in August of 1960 also. I can only assume that any cars built after August of 1960 got the W date letter and were considered "second" year of production.

                    John
                    See what you are saying John . So ' second ' year would be exceeding a 12 month year of production or start to finish and could overlap the '61 model year production start in the case of the 60's to complete the orders for the 1960. It was a big year with over 90,000 orders . Then all the Lincolns mixed in with the Birds . Busy times at Wixom .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Assembly plant production is very complicated. Sometimes the plant shuts down because 'stock' is missing. For instance, they run out of steering columns or rear ends (or a thousand other components). Then, all of a sudden, the train pulls in with box cars full of what ever was in short supply.

                      If sales are in high demand, Saturday production schedules are forecast to make up for 'production lost' during the week. This is costly because everyone makes 'time-and-a-half' all day Saturday and double time on Sunday regardless of how many hours were worked during M-F.

                      Then, there are breakdowns... If the lines cannot be operational within a line relief-period or 1/2-hr lunch, management will send the entire plant home. At times, Wixom lost electrical power in the middle of production. Same story.

                      Normally, an assembly plant has ~1,000 cars 'in process' but Wixom had fewer because the Squarebird Body Shop was 50 miles away at Budd in Detroit. Budd also supplied the VIN numbers because some were stamped in sub-assembly locations that could not be accessed later in the build (like inside the cowl top).

                      SB bodies originated at Ford in Wixom's Paint Dept. They arrived by truck but not always in order of the VIN. Most were but some were not. That's where the Scheduling Dept., had a challenge generating the rotation sheets. This is a forecast that all departments received so they could make sub-assemblies in the correct order as hard tops and convertibles came down the same line. They never cued two convertibles back-to-back.

                      Do not go by the VIN for the build date, that is an estimate. Always count on the Rotation Sheets because those three-digit numbers were generated when the cars were in the plant, going to 'Paint', and they remained on the body and in order until the car went out the door.

                      There is NO overlap from year to year. When the last car for that model year is built, all the stock is removed from the production lines and sent to Ford's parts depots. The bare lines are thoroughly cleaned, painted, re-lit, fans are taken down and cleaned, etc. Sometimes Process Engineers juggled operations around the line, depending on 'head counts' vs line speeds that are strictly authorized by World Headquarters according to sales. Only THEN, will Material Handling stock the line with new parts.

                      You can see why Ford cannot mix model year cars or use different year parts on the same assembly line (like 1958 grilles on 1959 SBs). Only 'carryover parts' are retained in the plant (like suspensions, rear ends, engines, brakes, exhaust systems, etc.) - Dave
                      My latest project:
                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Squarebird Production Info

                        Thanks for all the comments and info. Ford was going by the Month designator. For example, IF management had decided to start the production on the Squarebird on 3 January, 1959, the Date Code would have 03 A. In fact, in 1958, due to the build out of the 1957 Tbird, and Wixom starting production on the 1958 Squarebird, production on the '58 started late, on Dec. 20, 1957- thru Sep. 16, '58. With only 35,758 Ht's built, and only 2,134 convertibles, which is why the '58 Convertible in particular, is considered to be pretty rare! So, going by the Month Of Manufacture By All Years list, a 1958 Tbird that came off the line on Dec. 20 to the end of December, should have a M code next to the Date # 20 M on the Data Plate AND the ROT/Build Sheet... And a '58 made in January, 1958, should have an A date code, because it was in the first year of production run, but I have not researched that..

                        For the '59 Production run, it started Oct. 17, 1958, about a month later, after the end of the '58 Production run. Probably because, as Dave said, to clean the equipment, restock, re-light, etc.. '59 Production ended on Aug. 22, 1959 with 57,195Ht's, and 10,261 Convertibles. Nearly double the number of Ht's, and about five times the number of Convertibles.

                        For the '60 Production run, it started on Sep. 8, 1959, about 2 weeks after the '59 Production ended. Again, probably because of what Dave said about cleaning up the plant for the next years run of cars. '60 Production ended on Sept. 9, '60, though they were planning on running through the 13th, as the Data Plates indicates. Which explains why people get confused over the Month codes. Sept. '59 was the first Month of production for the '60 Tbird, making it a Date Code of J... 12 months later, starting in Sept. '59, takes us to the month of August (the 12th month) Date Code H, with Production still going into September...The 2nd year of production... Hence the Date Code W, for the use of September for the second time... Production was at a great high of 92,843, with 78,447 Ht's, 11,860 Convertibles and 2,536 Sun Roof/Golde Tops. Which explains why the latter are considered to be fairly rare these days. BTW, during 1958-1960, at the same time they were building Squarebirds on that Wixom line, they were also building 1960 Lincolns, through 8-30-60 when they shut down the Lincoln Production run, 24,820 of them.

                        As Dave said, there was no overlap of years. BTW, 1961 Bulletbird production did not start until Oct. 3, 1960, about three weeks after 1960 shutdown.. He also gave us some good reasons why production might have been shut down, as it appears it might have been in 1960. Production of one year ended and after several or more weeks, when they were all cleaned up, stocked up with parts, they started the new year of production.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by YellowRose; November 23rd, 2019, 01:34 AM.

                        Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                        The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                        Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          just to add a little more confusion.......my 58 has a 352 with solid lifters, it appears it was a "transplant" from a full size Ford. The casting dates and assembly dates are all 7A numbers. confusing at first because there were no 352's made in Jan of 1957..... the 7A translates to November of 1957
                          this info supplies by Alan Tast.
                          "The "A" in the codes is for the month of November for both the assembly and casting dates. Ford apparently was in a transition period during the fall of 1957 on how to date-code their castings and assemblies, as the second digit used numbers from 1-9 for January-September, 0 for October, A for November and B for December. With this being the case, a mid-late November '57 assembly date would make sense for an early 352, especially for a full-size car engine with solid lifters and a Carter AFB. Some time later, Ford changed the ID of month from numbers/letters to just numbers."
                          So go figure.....................

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by frank58 View Post
                            "...With this being the case, a mid-late November '57 assembly date would make sense for an early 352, especially for a full-size car engine with solid lifters and a Carter AFB. Some time later, Ford changed the ID of month from numbers/letters to just numbers."...
                            That makes perfect sense because all Y-Block and early FE engines used solid lifters in all Ford cars. They proved to be good over millions of engines.

                            Hydraulic lifters were a big deal back then. So were tubeless tires. These were changes that many folks simply didn't trust.

                            Y-Block lifters look like an upside-down 'T' with a broad face and a skinny body that MUST be inserted from the bottom, before the camshaft (and crankshaft) are installed. So, the engine engineering change to a (huge) 7/8" lifter bore meant a totally different block casting that could accommodate straight, 'top-loading' lifter diameters. The change also offers potential for a lifter to come out, drop down to the bottom and ruin the engine. - Dave
                            My latest project:
                            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                            --Lee Iacocca

                            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              VIN stampings

                              So you are saying that the VINs were stamped at Budd? That doesn't sound right. What about the bodies that Ford rejected and where Holman-Moody got 8 of them to build into the GN stock cars? None of those had VINs stamped on them as they were rejected before they went down the assembly line? It would have been almost impossible after the bodies had been dropped off to keep them straight.

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