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  • YellowRose
    replied
    problem with replacement window rollers

    Jim Brown, President of CASCO has just advised me that they do not need anyone to send them a sample of the OEM metal cupped washer. He said they have original parts they can reference.

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    problem with replacement window rollers

    I am pleased to tell you that Jim Brown, President of CASCO, has just said in an email to me, that they will fix that problem with that metal cupped washer that comes as part of their 23240M all metal roller that they manufacture. IF they need an actual OEM cupped metal washer to replicate it, I will let you know. If so, someone might have to "loan" or give them one to examine and replicate. Here is what Jim had to say, and I post this with his expressed permission.

    Ray,

    I received your information about our 23240M all metal roller we manufacture. Thank you for taking the time to investigate the problem and for passing the information on to CASCO and the TBird community. We have made that part for several years now and have not heard of that problem before. We actually only manufacture the solid metal part of that assembly. We use the cupped washer, spring and hair pin from a readily available plastic window roller and toss out the plastic part. But it looks like we should be making our own version of the cupped washer too. I am sorry you had an issue with our roller. Thanks again for helping to make our parts the best they can be.

    Sincerely,

    Jim Brown, President, CASCO

    In response, I thanked him for his company's support of the Thunderbird and for their manufacturing of many parts still needed today by the large Thunderbird community around the world.

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  • simplyconnected
    replied
    Ray, Ford wasn't the only company that used these rollers. Everyone did, including Chevrolet. Of course they were used across all Ford car and truck lines, how many different rollers do we need? Because of the high volume, it is much cheaper to mold them from plastic than machining them from round stock or pressing them from powdered metal. Ford bought these stamped parts from Mattatuck in Waterbury, Connecticut.

    Martin Burs and I did a writeup on these rollers because he made some from brass. I thought he would churn out many more but instead, he was laid off (so he went sailing). That was a couple years ago.

    I'm sure that Martin doesn't mind if I share what we know and his experience making them in this Squarebirds.org site:
    CLICK HERE

    The thickness of the cupped washers cannot be too thick because a spring backs it up. Just make sure the height is at least as tall as the spool's major diameter.

    BTW, cupped washers are easy to make from SS washers available from all the major hardware stores. - Dave

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  • Tbird1044
    replied
    I did some checking on all of the rollers that I have. Here is what I found:
    1. Both the cupped washer and roller body are magnetic indicating a high steel content. Low grade s.s. is magnetic. Since the rust is pretty superficial, I would guess that they are a low grade s.s.
    2. I ordered some of the plastic rollers, mainly for the cupped washer and spring. When I used a vernier caliper to check dimensions, I found that the original appeared to be 22 gauge and the new ones 23 gauge. It's only about .003" difference and the measurements were close with a + - tolerance within limits.
    3. I also checked the OD and ID of the washers and they were all within a reasonable tolerance.
    I was going to order some of the Casco rollers, but have been holding off to see if I can get the brass rollers. The 2 different rollers that I have, appear to be the original Ford or new plastic from Ebay, so it will interesting to see what Casco comes up with. It should be an easy check for them to make.
    Nyles

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    problem with replacement window rollers

    Even if there is rust on those cupped washers, they can be cleaned up, and used again unless they are bent, have bad wear or just not usable. Hopefully, CASCO will opt to fix the configuration of their cupped washers in their metal window roller assemblies. I will let you know what they say when I hear from them. As for the plastic ones that most everyone sells, I have no idea if they have the same problem with that cupped washer. If anyone has used the plastic version, it would be nice to know. I gather from past posts that those who have used the plastic ones have had some problems with them also regarding wear. It is interesting though, that Ford decided to go the plastic roller route in the Bulletbirds and big Fords after they started getting complaints, I gather, regarding the wearing of the metal rollers...

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  • simplyconnected
    replied
    Wow Carl, you're right. After reviewing my pictures, I do see rust on those OEM washers. It's the other side that is made of SS. - Dave

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  • partsetal
    replied
    I've never come across ones that were stainless. The problem with many of the tapered washers is that they get bent while in operation and will not give smooth window operation. I imagine a set of dies could be made to straighten them.
    Carl

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  • simplyconnected
    replied
    Why not simply re-use the old washers? They are already the right size, made of stainless and I have never seen one wear out. New ones will be the same as the old ones.

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  • Anders
    replied
    Thanks Ray. And even more, all who contributed to this thread I am thinking of let a skilled metalman make me accurate copies of the original in stainless steel. Anyone who have any information about those rollers made in brass I read about a year or three back? Are they still avalible?

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    problem with replacement window rollers

    Kimm, and all, you will be pleased to know that I contacted Casco to see who makes their all metal window rollers. It turns out that they do, as they make many other parts for our Tbirds. These rollers are not only used on Little Birds, Squarebirds, but also on the big Fords back then. Don, at the Bird Nest just told me that in '61, I think he said, or somewhere in the Bulletbird production, Ford switched to plastic rollers because they found that the metal rollers rolling in a metal window frame was causing metal on metal wear.

    Casco asked me to send them pix of the OEM roller, which I will, and information regarding the problem ya'll are experiencing with their roller assembly. She said they have not heard that the cupped washer is not manufactured the same as the OEM version. I told her that what some of ya'll have had to do is to re-use the OEM cupped washer instead of theirs. They want to look into this and see if they can fix this. IF it turns out that they need to see an OEM cupped washer, what I would like someone to do, IF you can spare ONE OEM cupped roller washer, is to send one them. IF they need one to examine. They will let me know if they do not have any available and want one to examine. Kim confirmed in his post it was CASCO that he ordered them from. Joe's roller parts came with the car when he bought it.

    I have checked the websites of ALL the major Tbird parts houses. The ONLY one I can find that manufactures and sells the metal window roller assembly is CASCO. All the rest who market them, market the plastic ones. That part # is 23240, whether in metal or plastic. I will let ya'll know what I hear back from CASCO.
    Last edited by YellowRose; May 19th, 2015, 08:57 PM. Reason: Additional Information

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  • kimmc
    replied
    problem with replacement window rollers

    Note to thread: the rollers were from Casco I and about $8.50 each. I have not looked at rollers from other vendors to see if they have the same skimpy cupped washer. In my opinion, rollers with these washers are a potential problem. The Casco roller is a good piece (better than the OEM rollers in my opinion) as are the spring, flat washer, and hairpin. It's just the cupped washer that is a poor copy.

    Ray: if you could determine who manufactures the rollers and make them aware of the issue, they could produce a correct cupped washer. Kim

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  • Joe Johnston
    replied
    I had this same issue with my 57 and used salvaged washers as well. Has anyone investigated using a flat washer, or a punch out from an electrician's punch

    Post is edited. Just looked at Amazon and a punch like I was thinking of won't work because the ID will probably be too big as these punches require a draw bar to pull the dies together.

    Any one have a heavy duty shim stock or sheet metal punch to experiment with?
    Last edited by Joe Johnston; May 19th, 2015, 09:47 AM. Reason: electrician's punch won't work!

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    problem with replacement window rollers

    Done, Anders. I added it to the Window section in the TRL..

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  • Anders
    replied
    Ray, Can you please do a link to this or save this thread in the Technical Resource Library? I need to find this great ideas within a year or so

    Great job Jim!!

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  • Tbird1044
    replied
    Carl:
    If my buddy John comes through, he will making a run of the "brass" rollers. These rollers would still need to use the original bevel washers. He is planning on making a run of 500-1000 rollers. He has the program set up for the CNC so now needs to get the materials and do the run.
    I keep after him as I want to use these rollers when I install my windows.
    Nyles

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