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Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

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  • analysis

    Great analysis Howard, I wonder if we could get ABS to at least answer some questions such as you pose about width and center line?
    Grant
    NCbird on the Coast of NC
    "Dads Bird" for my father

    Comment


    • Am I seeing things here or is this a carry over of the Thunderbird brake booster bracket??? Square hole on one side and round on the other. Got to be the same as the Tbird... Looks like it would make an easy fit for a different booster on a non a/c car without having to grind them off an original booster.
      On the truck booster it looks like they just flipped the brackets over and reused with a different booster.

      Ebay - 350256120071 , 120570403351 , 170485901552

      Eric
      registry 5347

      Comment



      • Yes Eric, all three eBay listings are all the same bracket. This one in particular makes me chuckle. It has no bracket linkage. Those holes on the sides are access holes for the cotter pins and dowel pins that are pivot points for the linkage. This brake pedal rod goes straight into the booster and the m/c is mounted upside down (lower than the firewall holes).

        No matter, these brackets don't have enough offset and they aren't far enough away from the firewall for Squarebirds. - Dave
        My latest project:
        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
        --Lee Iacocca

        From: Royal Oak, Michigan

        Comment


        • '75, '60, '77

          NCBird and I have been talking about spindles. Thought I would post this info/pic for everyone. So here is a VERY unscientific comparison of spindles that I tried on my Tbird for the disc brake conversion. Of course the scarebird uses stock spindles.

          The Red line generally represents vertical with a horizontal line extending from it in the center of the axle. (basically I drew a line through where I thought the center of the axle was and connected it back to the vertical line)
          The Blue line generally shows distance from vertical to center of spindle at about the same point
          The Yellow line generally represents a parallel line through the center of the bottom ball joint.

          My Observations from install on each:
          Granada and original Tbird look close so you would think alignment would be nearly the same - not so - probably has a lot to do with the fact that the Granada axle stub is higher on the vertical link thus lowering the car slightly. The Torino/'77Tbird spindles are not even close - think this is what everyone uses on full size Fords like Galaxie etc.

          Hope this answers some questons.
          Eric
          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/ft.asp




          Last edited by DKheld; June 7th, 2010, 01:46 PM.

          Comment


          • alignment

            Thanks Eric you can certainly see the difference in the 77 spindles. I wonder if the camber and caster designed into the spindles is what makes the alignment touchy. When do you think you will go in for your next alignment?
            Grant
            Grant
            NCbird on the Coast of NC
            "Dads Bird" for my father

            Comment


            • rims

              found these rims here in Finland on a local parts auction site, would they fit on the bird with disc's? they are 14" and were on a '65 mustang. He only has 2 wire wheel hubcaps might be able to find more.
              asking about $480,- but can persuaded to lower the price a bit.

              greets,
              Attached Files
              sigpicGreets,
              Ronald
              Kuusamo
              http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=1741

              Comment


              • Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                Ron, I have been doing some checking for you on '65 Mustangs this morning. According to what I have read on Mustang Forums, and other sites the '65 Mustangs came standard with drum brakes... Disc brakes were one of the many options that you could put on a '65 Mustang. So those rims could very well be from a '65 Mustang that had drum brakes. And they could very well be from a '65 Mustang with disc brakes. The key is whether the back side of the rims are deep enough to get the rotors in place to freely move around the rim. simplyconnected or someone else might be able to give you the specs you need to check. We know the rims should be 14"x6" vented, 5 lug, 4.5 bolt circle. Mine are nearly 4" deep in the inside. I do not have one here that I can measure. If you know someone who knows their rims really well, they can probably look at them and tell you if the came off a drum brake equipped Mustang or a disc brake equipped one. If they are disc brake rims will he sell you just the rims? But then you still need three more for a matched set. Ya gotta have a disc brake ready spare in case ya have a flat on a front tire.
                Last edited by YellowRose; June 8th, 2010, 11:01 AM.

                Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                The Terminator.....
                Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RustyNCa View Post
                  Yeah, the brakes on my 65 are nothing short of amazing really, when ford decided to add the discs to the birds they went all out. But it does make it a challenge when you go playing with rims and the heavy overhang the calipers have.

                  My only real complaint on the 65 is the single reservoir bothers me, at some point down the line I plan on swapping that out.
                  When you need to do that I kept the box for my conversion. I think it was a 66 Mustang master. Very easy to do by the way. The main issue was having to notch the cross brace to clear the master.

                  Comment


                  • pulsed vaccuumm

                    MY bird has pulsed vaccuum syndrome and the only cure was to advance the cam in the block 4 to 6 deg with roller chain set up..
                    this made my brake booster work and even my drum setup stop quicker.
                    the next best deal to my set up would be a dual 8" booster .
                    THE CALIPER HAS TO BE IN THE FRONT for a 58 bird keep the 58 out board shocks and add two more inside the front coils..

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Anders View Post
                      Anyone know the best brake shoes avalible?
                      I find these work the best for me....

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ayrwoof View Post
                        the next best deal to my set up would be a dual 8" booster .
                        THE CALIPER HAS TO BE IN THE FRONT for a 58 bird keep the 58 out board shocks and add two more inside the front coils..
                        I would disagree with you on the Caliper having to be in front. If you run it in front, I think it would interfere with the sway-bar and our cars need all the help they can get in that regard.....

                        I am running the caliper in the back and the out board shock as well, have had no issues with that setup at all.

                        But yeah, the dual 8" booster works very well....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JohnG View Post

                          On the comment abou the non-Ford hardware, what ends up showing??

                          The master cylinder?? I am guessing the calipers are hidden...no?


                          John
                          Let's try it this way John. Say you drive a thousand miles to an event and the brakes go out. Do you think it would be easier and quicker to find FORD replacement parts or parts from a one-fits-all conversion company?

                          Comment


                          • Brake Shoe Adjustment

                            If your OEM brakes did not come with self-adjusters, we used the pedal height to anticipate the next 'brake adjustment' procedure. Eventually, the pedal would go to the floor. Then, self-adjusters came on standard brakes.

                            Self Adjusters came in two flavors:
                            The early ones spread the bottoms of the shoes, which kept the pistons collapsed, and the shoes close to the drums. This worked well.

                            Later self adjusters spread the tops of the shoes (like on my Tempo), which also kept the shoes close to the drums. The problem was, this allowed the pistons to extend farther and farther until they eventually CAME OUT of their cylinder bores. Then, brake fluid soaked the drum and half the brake system didn't work at all (because the master cylinder is a dual-piston type).

                            Now, we have Residual Valves for the rear brake line. They also keep the shoes close to the drum by holding enough line pressure to stop the springs from returning the shoes. Here we are again; if you have any kind of self adjusters, a residual valve will render them useless, the pedal height won't give any indication, and the brake pistons will eventually come out of their bores.

                            I encourage Squarebird owners to buy new self-adjust KITS. They spread the bottoms of the shoes with a racheting star wheel. The kits are commonly available in your local auto parts store for under $15/each (LH & RH). Rabestos and Carolson make them under part numbers (H2544 & H2545).

                            As alway, backing up and applying your brake actuates the rachet, which turns the star wheel if adjustment is needed.

                            With working self-adjusters, a rear brake line residual valve is NOT necessary. As explained, a residual valve prohibits the self adjuster from working, the pistons will eventually come out of their bores, and the brake pedal will not give the driver any indication until it happens.


                            If you use a residual valve, make your 'manual brake adjustment' procedure a mandatory scheduled event. - Dave
                            My latest project:
                            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                            --Lee Iacocca

                            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                            Comment


                            • More on self-adjusters

                              I'm taking SimplyConnected's advice re. self-adjusters for my '60. It seems from the Ford parts books that the rear brakes on 1960 and 1961 Tbirds are the same except that '61 had self-adjusters. I ordered 2 '61 self-adjuster kits from Mac's (1 each L and R as they are different).

                              I couldn't tell from the Ford parts books if the backing plates are different, but I will let all know if this works out.
                              John Orwin
                              1960 HT 430
                              VTCI #11290
                              Tbird Registry #1590

                              Comment


                              • That's the only down side to adding self adjusters as I just found out. The holes in the backing plates don't line up since the adjusting screws are toward the front normally on squarebirds but toward the back when using self adjusters. You can always change the backing plates around if you want. A lot easier on the front than the back.
                                John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                                Thunderbird Registry #36223
                                jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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