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Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

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  • Originally posted by simplyconnected View Post


    Next, let me aver that all the big car companies use non-adjustable combination valves (in non-ABS disk/drum systems).
    OEM Combination (Prop) Valves are calibrated to the weight and brake bias of the original vehicle.

    A Proportioning Valve only comes into play during a full panic stop. It prevents (hopefully) the rear brakes from locking (weight bias and transfer) leading to the rear end on the car swinging around.

    An adjustable Prop Valve is meant for a competition vehicle or one that has no known usable OEM valve.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Howard Prout View Post
      My project is finally done. I tried two used Ford style proportioning valves and neither of them worked properly so I ended up buying a new GM style proportioning valve. It works fine. The brakes aren't as crisp as I would like them but they are feel much better than the old drum brakes. You may notice that the booster is upside down. I did this on purpose as I still have the K-H unit in place and functioining. I put a tee in the vacuum line from the manifold to connect to the new booster with the continuation going to the check valve for the K-H booster and vacuum reservoir.
      I see you used the lead for the brake fail sensor, where did you run it, to the old brake light on the dash?

      Here is what my setup ended up looking like. I should take new photos of it though, it is now painted in Hammered paint.

      I also kept the link to the old vacuum reservoir.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by KULTULZ View Post
        Correct. If one is doing a later style conversion (Single or Dual Diaphragm booster), the original KH system should be negated (hopefully removed and saved). The Dual Diaphragm booster is designed for small spaces. The reservoir(s) will give you 1 to 2 stops after loss of engine vacuum. It is the purpose of the reservoir(s).

        The old reservoir is not needed (or vacuum check valve).
        I kept the use of the reservoir in my conversion, it still worked, why not give yourself the extra amount of reserve. Also if you are running lots of overlap in your cam, you don't get much vacuum at an idle, so you need as much reserve as possible.

        Heck I had to add an additional reservoir to my olds, with her cam she only pulls 7 lbs at idle, which wasn't enough to run the brakes for long....... It was a cheaper fix than going to electric or hydraulic assist.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Richard D. Hord View Post
          Hey Guys,
          Here on the right of the picture is the tomato juice can Ray was referring to. This is under the hood of my 1978 Thunderbird!
          Richard D. Hord
          My 64 and the 65's have one of those on the passenger shock tower. They have a very very small vacuum line in and out. Disconnect them and you loose the power door locks, break release, and the steering wheel won't unlock and slide.....

          So on the flair-birds I have that can is only for the accessories inside the car, doesn't have anything to do with the brakes.

          Comment


          • Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

            I thought I would clarify something here.. When Howard said PV or proportional valve, he meant CV or combination valve. He did NOT use a PV valve on his system, but a CV valve instead... Bryan, thanks for the pic of your set up. I think that Howard might test his system out to see if he gets better pedal feel by disconnecting the vacuum to the KH/fender reservoir system. Maybe that will be better. Thanks for the additional input from KULTULZ. Much appreciated. Sooner or later, somewhere down the road, I will be going through this also with Rose, and this is all a learning experience for me and others.

            Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
            The Terminator.....
            Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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            • Originally posted by YellowRose View Post

              I thought I would clarify something here.. When Howard said PV or proportional valve, he meant CV or combination valve. He did NOT use a PV valve on his system, but a CV valve instead...
              I hate to aggravate but it is important to understand that a proportioning valve is part of a combination valve.

              Comment


              • It's twu, it's twu.
                John Byers
                1960 Convertible (Orig owner)
                sigpic

                Comment


                • Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                  Yup, that's right. That is one of the reasons they call it a Combination Valve or CV. It contains a proportioning valve, and other components. Here is a good explanation of how the master cylinder and the Combination Valve work.

                  http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/master-brake.htm

                  Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                  The Terminator.....
                  Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                  https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                  Comment


                  • Hello,
                    seems like the prev.owner was going to modify the brakes to a booster hence he mentioned power brakes when he sold it me. But I believe the power booster was never on it but he gave me 2 boosters but no bracket.

                    found this bracket on ebay #170474340834

                    text was:"This power brake booster bracket was removed from a 1978 F250 with a 460 engine. the booster itself was a Bendix with a straight eyelet shaft. These can be used to convert some older Ford trucks to power brakes."

                    question is , will it fit the 60 bird?
                    regards
                    ron
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by kuusamon; April 24th, 2010, 03:45 PM.
                    sigpicGreets,
                    Ronald
                    Kuusamo
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=1741

                    Comment


                    • Ron, I see the auction ends in two hours. The bracket is nice, but I don't think the firewall holes are spread far enough apart vertically. This bracket looks like it will fit my '59 Galaxie. Thunderbirds and Galaxies used different master cylinders with different bolt patterns.

                      Howard Prout is the go-to guy, here. He made a beautiful bracket to fit his '60 w/430 engine, had it chromed, and is using it right now.

                      The bracket might be altered and made to work, but it would involve welding extra metal and re-drilling the two top firewall holes so they are taller. - Dave
                      My latest project:
                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment


                      • new bracket??? maybe

                        I found this on EBAY recently and sent them an email to see if it is a new bracket or a Universal. I have included their response for someone who might want to pursue it. This one is for a Disc/Disc setup but they have one for Disc/Drum. If someone does follow up please post results. Grant

                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1959-...item3efe732744

                        Dear abs_power_brake,

                        is this a new bracket just for the squarebirds or is this a "universal"?


                        - ncboat

                        HI.GOOD QUESTION. ITS MADE FOR T BIRDS.A SIMPLE BOLT ON
                        714-771-6549
                        DOUG OR ED


                        Good luck.
                        Grant
                        NCbird on the Coast of NC
                        "Dads Bird" for my father

                        Comment


                        • Good find Grant - thanks for posting. Hope someone tries this setup and reports back. It looks similar but taller than the Galaxie bracket from Master Power Brakes so maybe it will work. The Galaxie bracket was the first thing I tried when did my conversion 6-7 years ago and was not able to locate a disc/drum master for the 4 bolt Tbird booster. The Galaxie bracket did not bolt to the original bolts on the firewall without drilling new holes and put the master cyl way too close to the manifold.

                          Looks like there has been enough demand to fabricate a simple bolt in replacement for the Squarebird booster - Hurray!

                          Eric

                          Comment


                          • Howard... where are you???
                            Howard Prout found that the Galaxie & T-bird master cylinder bolt patterns are different (after I drilled his bracket to the Galaxie firewall pattern). Sorry for that, Howard.

                            But, Howard made his own brackets that fit perfectly. Remember, Howard's Squarebird has a 430 with A/C. He posted his success earlier in this thread AND he has been driving with his new chrome Power Disk Brakes ever since.

                            Grant, the eBay sale is probably a working bracket. Thanks for finding the listing. Ray Clark called ABS months ago, asking if they will sell just the bracket. They will only sell the firewall bracket with the booster & M/C combination.

                            That would be ok too, except their price is WAY out of line. The MBM combination costs US$200 in chrome and domestic shipping is $25 (not $310). If we can make more of Howard's brackets, we will have a sweet, inexpensive, setup for all Squarebirds. - Dave
                            My latest project:
                            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                            --Lee Iacocca

                            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                            Comment


                            • make them a vendor

                              Another way may be to invite them to this thread. Let them see the business they are leaving on the table because of their business model. Like Sam Walton believed, make a little profit on a lot of them instead of a bunch of profit on a few. That was the original Wal-Mart model. Make them a partner in solving the problem which accrues to their benefit and ours. Believe me I will build my own before paying excessive money for ease thats why I am so impressed with Howard and his effort. Grant
                              Grant
                              NCbird on the Coast of NC
                              "Dads Bird" for my father

                              Comment


                              • The ABS Brakes brackets and the ones I'm using look very similar (In the pix below, the ABS system is on the left, mine is on the right). I'd like to know if anyone has tried the ABS brackets. The issues I am concerned about with the ABS system are related to interference with the steering column and the ratio of the pivot arm. I had to narrow the lower section of my brackets so that the outboard one did not hit the steering column. Also in order to get a ratio of near 2:1 on the pivot arm, I had to make a "hockey stick" push arm. I am currently working on a revised (shorter) design for the brackets that does not have to be pinched at the bottom to avoid contact with the steering column. I am now of the opinion that the same brackets will work on all variations of engine size and with or w/o A/C. The rear face of the booster has to be about 5" from the firewall to accomodate the pivot arm mechanism. This also provides enough space to clear the AC plenum if there is one. The center line of the booster has to be about 5" above the center line of the brake push rod to clear the left valve cover. The 352 and 430 engines have nearly the same stroke so the height requirements should be about the same.
                                Attached Files
                                sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

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