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  • Possible MC/Booster Alternative

    I came across the www.abspowerbrake.com site and they have an electric power booster/mc that might work for us. Check out the "new products" as well as the Ford items. They show items for 1958-60 Thunderbirds. The mc can mount on the firewall in the same place as our existing mcs and there is a remote electric pump. You can get it with a built in proportioning valve, but I don't know if it is adjustable. Unfortuately no prices are shown in their catalog. Does anyone have any experience with these systems?
    sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Howard Prout View Post
      I came across the www.abspowerbrake.com site and they have an electric power booster/mc that might work for us...
      Sweet merciful Jesus! PLEASE DO NOT BUY AN ELECTRIC PUMP system. They are not reliable. (Sorry for busting on your find, Howard; I know this is something new.)

      GM (and Ford) used the German "Teves" system. The net is teeming with horror stories about catastrophic failures:
      http://en.allexperts.com/q/Land-Rove...ke-Failure.htm
      http://en.allexperts.com/q/Cadillac-...em-failure.htm
      http://forums.aaca.org/f116/teves-re...al-184097.html
      http://www.allworldauto.com/comments..._42-257-1.html

      Buick Reatta's had three LED indicators: Red - your motor/pump/accumulator isn't working and you don't have any brakes, Yellow - Your pump quit and you might have enough accumulator pressure for one pump, Green - system ok.

      Sometimes these indicators lied. Bottom line: When the electric/hydraulic pump fails, you stand on the brakes, it feels like a rock, and you get NO brakes.

      Many complaints about spending $2,000 on a complete new system, just to have it malfunction (again). They couldn't find anyone qualified to work on this ABS system, either.

      You guys know I am one for any modern change regarding safety. This is a step in the wrong direction. Most of the guys I know with Reatta's were frantic, looking for Camaro/Firebird brake systems to replace their electric/hydraulic brake systems.

      A simple system has fewer things that can go wrong. A dual-M/C offers a redundant backup you will be very glad for IF you ever lose line pressure. Please choose a system that is proven over many decades, with millions of cars. - Dave Dare
      Last edited by simplyconnected; November 19th, 2009, 04:05 PM.
      My latest project:
      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
      --Lee Iacocca

      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

      Comment


      • Message received loud and clear! No electric pump system.

        The problem is that there does not appear to be a booster/dual mc combo out there that will fit our vehicles. OldIrishDave tried everything he could think of and couldn't come up with brackets that would move the booster out far enough clear the AC plenum.
        Last edited by Howard Prout; November 19th, 2009, 04:10 PM.
        sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

        Comment


        • Howard, after reading your post I called OID. We banged heads and came up with a bracket he already sells for a Chevy Truck. It extends from the firewall 5-1/2" and I think it will work just fine for you guys with A/C. Remember, his two-stage booster is smaller in diameter but assists MUCH more than a single-stage booster.

          Dave said he might need to drill a hole to fit the Ford setup, but that's no biggie. He will do that.

          Check it out:




          This combo is on eBay (Item number:330378094796).

          I realize not many Thunderbirds actually have factory A/C, so for you guys that don't, get the smaller bracket. If you ever do get A/C, it probably won't be 'factory' or fit in the space the old plenums used.

          There are hundreds of combinations of rods (booster & pedal), spacers, etc. Dave has what we need, but he doesn't want to sell items unless he knows they work. He has offered to send this bracket to me for review. Problem is, I have no T-bird (much less one with A/C). - Dave
          My latest project:
          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
          --Lee Iacocca

          From: Royal Oak, Michigan

          Comment


          • Thanks for your help Dave. Dave at DropNStop says that he is almosts certain that his unit will work on our vehicles with AC but it costs $400 and it isn't chromed. OID's unit is $210 chromed! Big difference.
            sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

            Comment


            • Here's the big question:
              How many of us have factory air and need this bracket? (Let's have a 'show of hands.')

              Howard, anyone could throw excessive amounts of money at their car and have someone else do it. Truth is, that's exactly what most owners do, for a host of reasons. There are businesses out there waiting to do the work for a tidy profit. After all, this is custom work (what isn't).
              My latest project:
              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
              --Lee Iacocca

              From: Royal Oak, Michigan

              Comment


              • Count me as #1. Will be doing this within a years time.

                Comment


                • Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                  I will need one....

                  Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                  The Terminator..... VTCI #11178
                  Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                  https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                  Comment


                  • I believe the guys at absbrake sell the booster and MC that will fit with AC. I have AC and added their disc conversion, but chose to atay with manual brakes, so I have no booster.

                    Comment


                    • upgraded MC

                      Dave, have you had any discussion with OID about a booster and MC that will bolt on to our existing brackets?
                      Does anyone have a booster/mc off the car that can get the measurements of the bolt pattern? My booster bolts to the braket and can be removed although it looks like some had rivets maybe. I keep thinking there ought to be a ford (maybe later bird or full size) that has a booster that can be bolted on and then use a double MC on that. Have we determined that the later factory non A/C bracket wont space the booster out far enough for the A/C cars. I may have missed that. Grant
                      Grant
                      NCbird on the Coast of NC
                      "Dads Bird" for my father

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Anders Myrberg View Post
                        Discs realy sounds like a good idea. My brakes realy sucks. They have faded quite dramaticly since spring. Canīt realy "Stop", but OK, she does "go down in speed" while pressing all I can....
                        Brake fluid is still full. Perhaps new drum shoes is needed?
                        But I might make her illegal by changing to modern brakes. Need to check that.
                        I guess original steel wheels, without venting holes is out of questions with disc brakes, as they require a lot of air flow. Like Skyd.
                        Anyone know the best brake shoes avalible?
                        These shoes work pretty well.... there are designed for slick surfaces....

                        Comment


                        • The origional ford brake booster bracket is riveted on. The rivets measure 3 1/2" center to center top to bottom and 3 5/8 " center to center across. A booster with 3 1/2" square bolt pattern should fit. The bracket is also 4" from front to back. My bird does not have A/C but there is plenty of room for the A/C box. I am in the process of changing from origional booster and master cyl to a dual booster and master cyl. I will let you know what works. If the new bracket don't fit, I plan on making my origional bracket work if possible.
                          Hope this helps.
                          Gary


                          Originally posted by ncbird View Post
                          Dave, have you had any discussion with OID about a booster and MC that will bolt on to our existing brackets?
                          Does anyone have a booster/mc off the car that can get the measurements of the bolt pattern? My booster bolts to the braket and can be removed although it looks like some had rivets maybe. I keep thinking there ought to be a ford (maybe later bird or full size) that has a booster that can be bolted on and then use a double MC on that. Have we determined that the later factory non A/C bracket wont space the booster out far enough for the A/C cars. I may have missed that. Grant

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ncbird View Post
                            ...Does anyone have a booster/mc off the car that can get the measurements of the bolt pattern?...
                            Good suggestions, Grant. I know this, the new boosters have a bolt pattern of 3-3/4" square. If you can put the booster's center shaft in the middle of your bracket, then lay-out and drill four holes, I'm sure your original bracket would work.

                            If not, be careful you don't spend tons of money chasing down new old stock or original parts. Remember, these new combo's come with a bracket and the whole shootin match is a decent $210 (in chrome). Original replacement boosters are over $200 by themselves.

                            So far, I count two members who need A/C brackets (ParTaxer & YellowRose).
                            My latest project:
                            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                            --Lee Iacocca

                            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                            Comment


                            • Dave - add me to the list of those needing a bracket.

                              While on this topic, did anyone of the forum pick up this unit?
                              http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1959-...item3ca7563ed9

                              Both Ray and I missed bidding on it - a bit of a steal for $26! This unit could be another source to verify the dimensions.

                              Gary, if I understand you corretly, you say your bracket sets the booster four inches from the firewall and there is plenty of room for an AC plenum. If so, that's great news. Thats mean that OID's Chev truck unit that sets the booster 5 1/2" from the firewall should work fine. I guess one of the issues is the shape of the booster in front of the bracket - if it has an almost flat face with the bracket, then it probably won't work. But if has a set back and a rounded face, it may work. Someone must have both the booster and AC and could take apicture showing us how it fits together.
                              Last edited by Howard Prout; November 20th, 2009, 03:12 PM.
                              sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

                              Comment


                              • Here is another alternative. I was in contact with ABS Power Brakes ( www.abspowerbrake.com ) today. They have a unit they say will work in our cars with AC. See page 95 of their catalog. It is item #9794 - normal finish for $250 or #9794C - chromed for $425. This is a 7" dual diaphragm unit and the bracket is 6" deep. But stay tuned for more news re OID's unit.
                                Last edited by Howard Prout; November 20th, 2009, 07:35 PM.
                                sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

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