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58' Edsel power steering question

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  • simplyconnected
    replied
    Let's see how long this lasts... Corrosion was found in the carb, blocking one of the jets. I knew the carb was rebuilt but I didn't know it sat idle for many months after the rebuild. Anyway, all is good now. - Dave

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  • simplyconnected
    replied
    Ok, I got a return call. He said his engine drank a whole gallon of gas. He also said 'his air bubble' kept growing. In conversation, he told me that he used teflon on all the connections and that his clear filter was the only filtration. I asked him to pull the top off the carb, bring it to a bench and find out what is obstructing the needle valve.

    He has a new tank, so I don't think rust (or a piece of paper) is plugging the pickup, he said he checked all connections, he has a new fuel pump that he know is good and the carb was rebuilt. He said, putting his finger over the fuel line, he can feel pump pressure. Considering all these points there must be human error involved. I assume a piece of junk or teflon is at the carb inlet, possibly at the float needle.

    His thinking is, the carb is putting back pressure on the fuel line, causing the bubble to grow.
    I told him that pressure comes from the pump and that the carb bowls are at atmospheric pressure. When the float drops it opens the inlet and whatever is in that fuel line will come into the float bowl whether it's liquid or gas and it keeps flowing until the float raises (and shuts the fuel off).

    We also discussed the possibility of using a phenolic spacer under the carb to isolate excessive engine heat. (BTW, his engine was built in C4 (1964) according to his intake manifold's casting numbers.) The car lives in Alabama but it's not hot there right now so I don't think heat is an issue. The car came with just a mechanical fuel pump and it worked just fine for many decades without an electric pump. - Dave

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  • simplyconnected
    replied
    John, I spoke with him last night and told him to use a 'milk jug' of gas with a clear hose and DRIVE it. Earlier, he said it takes ten minutes to stop. Let's see how long it takes today. I'm waiting for his call with the results. - Dave

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  • jopizz
    replied
    One thing you can try is to disconnect the line at the fuel pump that goes to the tank and hook up a gas can to feed it. If the pressure still goes down then you know it's from the pump to the carburetor. If it stays consistent then you know it's the fuel line or the tank. I would also check all your rubber lines. They can collapse after a time and cut off the flow of fuel.

    John

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    Woww.. I don't know what to suggest further. Hopefully, Dave will have something further to suggest. It could be a problem with the electric fuel pump not forcing the gas to the oem fuel pump onto the carb. Or it could be the oem fuel pump at fault. Or it could be something wrong with the carb... But I see that you had the carb rebuilt. There certainly has to be something that is causing this... Do you have a see through filter in the gas line that you can see what the gas looks like? How old is the tank?

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  • cb123
    replied
    Thanks John & Ray! I bought the factory reproduction tank off of eBay. I had the same problem with the old, original tank. The gas cap is vented, and I even tried it without the cap, same thing happens.

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    I did some research on Edsel gas tanks. Apparently, the gas tanks from other Fords of that era could work, IF it is determined that new gas tank has a problem. John may be right. Apparently, the original gas tank was outfitted with a vent built into it, according to what I read. If the "new" gas tank was not an Edsel gas tank, perhaps it is NOT vented. A vented gas cap might do the trick. Here is how others who could not find an original Edsel gas tank got around that problem... Apparently, a '61-'64 Galaxie and the Galaxie sending unit will work with modification.. You will find that information in the first thread. Clicking on a couple of those links did not work for me from this post. Try doing a copy/paste into a different browser.

    '59 Edsel Gas Tank Replacement

    https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162714

    Supposedly fits an Edsel

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gas-tank-fo...n4xc#vi-ilComp

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-edsel.200102/
    Last edited by YellowRose; January 21st, 2021, 11:36 AM.

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  • jopizz
    replied
    It sounds like more of a problem with the pumps getting fuel than delivering it. Where did you get a new tank. I wasn't aware that they were available for your Edsel. Also make sure you have a vented gas cap. You may have an issue with fuel being blocked from reaching the pumps.

    John

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    Hi Craig, I do not know what to tell ya! Except, lets see what John ~ jopizz or Dave ~ simplyconnected have to say about this when they get back on the Forum. You have done about everything you can think of to find and fix the problem. Rather than upgrading to a Tbird, lets see what we can figure out on how to fix that problem with the Edsel! Someone hopefully, can come up with something that has been overlooked.. Lets see what the morning brings, when more are online...

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  • cb123
    replied
    Hi Ray, I still have that pesky vapor/air problem with the Edsel. I had the 4 barrel Edlebrock carb rebuilt. New gas tank and fuel lines good. Also, I have a new mechanical fuel pump and electric fuel pump. The same old problem exists when I do a cold crank startup – the fuel pressure is fine, right at 5 lbs., with the fuel filter full of gas – 10 minutes later it’s down to ld. to zero, with very little gas remaining in the filter. With the electric full pump by itself, located at the back of the gas tank, the pressure is at 4 lbs., and about 20 minutes later you can’t drive it up a hill without it stalling. With both pumps in circuit I get about 6 lbs., and after idling for 15 minutes I get 1 lb. of fuel pressure or less. Ray, do you have any suggestions – should I upgrade to a Thunderbird you think? Craig

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    Lance Herrington of Tbirds Southwest, for many years has done a lot of repair and restoration work on Tbirds and classic cars. He repaired my fuel pump, carb and electric fuel pump on Tweety Bird when I owned her. He replaced my electric fuel pump with a better one. Instead of putting the electric fuel pump at the rear of the gar, close to the gas tank, he put it under the drivers seat instead. He said that on the Tbirds, there are easily accessible wiring contact points that allows him to run the electrical wiring from under the seat to the ignition switch, instead of having to run it all the way from the rear end of the car.. And he installs an On/Off switch also, so one can cut it in or out as needed. I gather that adding a low pressure electric fuel pump takes some of the load off that OEM fuel pump...

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  • cb123
    replied
    Ray, that's where I get my gas -- ethanol-free. I'm going to put an electric pump on it tomorrow, and see if I can get the pressure up to 5 or 6 lbs. Thanks so very much again, Ray! Craig

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    Hi Craig, some of our guys are also having fuel pump problems due to age, or constant use of ethanol gas in these old engines of ours. The new fuel pumps seem to be made overseas these days, like so many other things now, and there are reports of a lot of them turning up defective. So some are having theirs rebuilt, with a new diaphragm in them, cleaning out their fuel lines, cleaning the tank out, and overhauling their carbs, perhaps. Some are adding a low pressure electric fuel pump to the line, often back close to the gas tank, and add a kill switch to turn it on/off when not needed. Also, IF you have a good local source for ethanol-free gas, many are going to it, using 90 or 90+ octane in their tanks instead of ethanol. Check out https://www.pure-gas.org and click on AL for Alabama. You will find one station listed that sells ethanol-free gas in Chunchula... Eddie's Country Store is listed and sells 89octane. Look through the listing at all the cities around you, and you might find one that sells something higher than 89, but hey, 89 should do the trick as well as 90 or higher. It will probably cost you a bit more than ethanol does in that octane range, but it should be a big help to your engine. Also, if you have a boat marina or small airports around you, they usually sell ethanol-free gas too.

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  • cb123
    replied
    Thanks Ray! I'm still cleaning up things -- what a mess it made! Before all this happened, I had to put a new mechanical full pump on the Edsel, do to low full pressure. The new one isn't running much better, around 2 lbs or less. I blew out the lines and cleaned the gas tank, check the carb.-- it's all good. Would you have any suggestions. Craig

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  • YellowRose
    replied
    Thank you for the post, Craig. We had been wondering what happened after not hearing from you! In talking with Craig finally, I found out that they got hit by that Hurricane recently that went through his State. They had considerable damage, but not as bad as others around him who caught more of the brunt of the storm activity. They just recently got their power back! I am certainly glad that everything went well with the TeleTouch and it is back in full operation again!

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