This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 08-06-2010, 03:57 AM
Techie5262's Avatar
Techie5262 Techie5262 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 5 2010
Posts: 19
Techie5262 is on a distinguished road
Default Engine not turning over. Getting some sparks.

Having an issue with one of my 1959 Tbirds (Has 352 V8). It was last driven to a car lot down in St. Louis quite some time ago where it sat until I bought it.

I went to bypass the ignition switch. I connected a wire from the battery terminal to the terminal on the coil (Correct terminals). I connected the two terminals on the solenoid and got sparks. No turn over, just some good sized sparks and slight burns on the screwdriver. Gas tank is probably empty, but I thought I would at least hear it turn over. Am I possibly forgetting something here? Any ideas on why this is happening? Any suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:03 AM
Richard D. Hord Richard D. Hord is offline
Super-Experienced and Proud Kentuckian who bleeds Ford Blue.
 
Join Date: Dec 16 2008
Posts: 2,868
Richard D. Hord is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey Gerald,
First is the battery got a full charge? I know on Christine it takes battery fully charged to turn her over.
Has starter quit?
Has she jumped timing?
Can you turn the engine by hand?
Keep us posted!!!
Richard D. Hord
__________________
'60 Thunderbird "Christine"
Registry #33436
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:19 AM
Techie5262's Avatar
Techie5262 Techie5262 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 5 2010
Posts: 19
Techie5262 is on a distinguished road
Default

Hello Richard and thank you for your reply!

The battery does have a full charge. It is actually a new one obtained about 1-2 weeks ago for my other '59 Tbird (Red one). I just pulled it out of her and moved it to the black one.

Not sure if the starter is bad or not. Only thing I got were some sparks and burnt metal (Actually put small holes in the surface of the screwdriver, lol).

These are my first restoration projects, so I have not tried turning the engine by hand. Sorry to say and sound like a noob, but I am not completely sure how to do this. Not sure how to tell if she has jumped timing, either. If you could tell me how on both of those, I will be sure to try it later on when I head back out to them.

Off Topic:

I see that alot of you name your cars (I like that). I still need to come up with one for mine, lol. Should I create a thread somewhere for the restoration process on these and to get suggestions?? Let me know, thanks!

-Gerald
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-06-2010, 09:23 AM
JohnG's Avatar
JohnG JohnG is offline
John
 
Join Date: Jul 28 2003
Posts: 2,228
JohnG is on a distinguished road
Default

You really need to decide if the engine has siezed up from sitting. The bolt on the end of the crankshaft takes a 15/16" socket or offset wrench. I believe you want to rotate clockwise as you are facing the car from the front. Take all the sparkplugs out first (good thing to do anyways).

IF you find it will not turn over, one or more set of rings may have rusted to the cylinder wall. Not the end of the world but patience is needed.

Get some Marvel Mystery Oil or Liquid Wrench (forget WD40) and put 2-3 tablespoons in each cylinder. Let it set for a day or so. Resist the urge to wail away immediately. You do not want to break any rings!!!

The substance is good anyway, as the rings may have also become stuck in the grooves and they need to be free to move laterally back and forth.

Keep us posted!!

John
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Richard D. Hord Richard D. Hord is offline
Super-Experienced and Proud Kentuckian who bleeds Ford Blue.
 
Join Date: Dec 16 2008
Posts: 2,868
Richard D. Hord is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey Gerald,
John answered your question for me! Thanks John!!!
If she turns we will probably have to talk to Dave (simplyconnected) about the timing issue! Keep us posted!
As far as naming your car it will come to you with time. Christine got her name from the movie (Christine). When I went to pick her up she sounded like the real Christine when she came back to the garage after being burnt. The exhaust leak sounded the same. And my Christine has a mind of her own. I can be working on her and things not going right and start cursing her and she will not start. She has done this on me more than once. If things are going good and I do not get upset with her she will start every time! Also lighting hit the house blew holes in the concrete wall on both sides of her, started a fire within three feet of her and the hood on her closed, not just the fist latch but all the way shut! Scary, now you see why I named her CHRISTINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Richard D. Hord
__________________
'60 Thunderbird "Christine"
Registry #33436

Last edited by Richard D. Hord : 08-06-2010 at 11:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-06-2010, 06:35 PM
tbirds8 tbirds8 is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Nov 6 2006
Posts: 907
tbirds8 is on a distinguished road
Default

I agree that is her name. That would make me just be nice!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:13 PM
Techie5262's Avatar
Techie5262 Techie5262 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 5 2010
Posts: 19
Techie5262 is on a distinguished road
Default

Lol!! That is awesome, Richard!

Was just out at the cars a little bit ago. Had to rush out without checking the forum due to oversleeping and was about to miss the body shop down the road from them. Got some quotes for the body work on the red one. For all the body work (Including the trunk and everything) with priming would cost about $1500-$2000. The repainting is going to be about $2000 at the least but would include the inside of the engine area, as well (I need to remove the engine before hand). I found out that there might be a place here in town that could do the replating on the chrome for me. Just bought 2 original halo side mirrors that need to be redone as well as just about the rest of the chrome. Will need to go get a quote for that, as well.

Found the original radiator in the trunk of the red one (People before me added a new one with electric fan - supposed to be more of a racing one, but I am not wanting to turn this into a rat rod like they did) as well as some other original parts in there. Can not access the trunk of the black one atm due to having no keys for it. So it might be like finding a treasure in there when I finally find a way to open it, lol.

Going to check my tools real quick and see if I have a socket that size and then I might head back out while there is still daylight.

I want to see about having one or both of the engines rebuilt then painted. Add in all new seals and everything. I believe the engines are the original 352 V8's, but the numbers I got from the sides of the engines (Passenger side above oil pan) are giving me some trouble. I keep finding lists that repeat the numbers on several different engine types. Also, still having a bit of an issue with locating the vins on the frames to verify both my titles. Is one of the places the VIN is stamped on top of the round piece (Cross member I guess) that runs under the oil pan on the bottom of the engine?? If so it looks like the pan will need to be removed for me to see it because there is not enough space to really fit even a small mirror in there. Thought I could feel it, but that might be dirt build up, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-06-2010, 09:43 PM
Techie5262's Avatar
Techie5262 Techie5262 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 5 2010
Posts: 19
Techie5262 is on a distinguished road
Default

OK, just got back. Was able to turn it by hand. Thinking it might be the starter. Will need to tke it off Monday it get it tested.


Noticed a couple of differences in the engines. Appearently when they added that different radiator to the red one, and removed the fan, it looks like another device with a pulley got mounted in the engine. Also noticed the oil filter on one is at an angle facing downward while the other faces straight down. Starting to make me worry a bit about the engines seeing a couple of differences like that (Although everything else looks the same. Could use some help identifying them at this point, just to be sure.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-06-2010, 09:45 PM
Rigormortor's Avatar
Rigormortor Rigormortor is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Mar 5 2010
Posts: 114
Rigormortor is on a distinguished road
Default

Did you get to see if the engine is stuck or free? Another product to use that works great is PB Blast, shoot that down the spark plug holes and the engine will get free'd up fast.
__________________
On Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3841411
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-06-2010, 09:46 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,080
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techie5262 View Post
...Got some quotes for the body work on the red one... ...would include the inside of the engine area, as well (I need to remove the engine before hand)... ...I want to see about having one or both of the engines rebuilt then painted...
Gerald, seriously, if you have the means to overhaul an engine, and bump & paint, then do it in the correct order. Otherwise, you will end up redoing your work.

I suggest you remove your engine and the transmission, first. While it is out for overhaul, do all your body and paint work (without the engine). This is how your car was built at Ford.

Whether the engine cranks or not is a moot issue if you intend on having the engine overhauled. I'm an Illionoian by birth, but I would hightail my 352 down I-74 to Indianapolis, and find a good engine machine shop, there. You get what you pay for here, but Indianapolis has LOTS of skilled engine machinists & rebuilders, and because of that, they are competitively priced.

All of our classic car engines need to be updated for today's fuel. That requires new hardened exhaust seats and stainless valves. Your heads are a major engine component, so listen to your engine rebuilder and take his advice. If you need a valve job, or a few valve guides replaced, do it.

Machine shops normally strip the block, boil (and bake) it, then magnaflux the castings to make sure there are no cracks. (If there are, there's no sense in going any further.)

Then, all mating surfaces should be machined 'true' to counter the affects of warping, water erosion divots, etc. The oil pump & distributor driveshaft, and timing chain set, pistons, rings, bearings, and possibly the lifters should be replaced. A master rebuild gasket kit will include all new seals and gaskets. You should request BRASS freeze plugs, and MOLY piston rings. Both are a little more money, but well worth the difference.

The machine shop will determine how much to bore the cylinders, THEN they will order pistons, and finally, the bores will be honed to the new piston diameters PLUS .0005" clearance. This is a very important sequence, and it takes time for all the parts to arrive.

My engine shop guarantees their engines for two years or 28,000 miles. All good rebuilders stand behind their work. If you have any questions, please ask. When your car is finished, it will be very responsive and powerful, it won't overheat, and it will look dynamite. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:15 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.