This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #11  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:34 AM
JohnG's Avatar
JohnG JohnG is offline
John
 
Join Date: Jul 28 2003
Posts: 2,229
JohnG is on a distinguished road
Default

briefly, the radio only has 4 tubes in it. You can easily replace them all for not much money. Try these guys: http://www.tubesandmore.com/

You should know that the amplifier for the radio is a separate item and is under the dash, to the very left, kind of above the driver's left knee. Aluminum looking unit.

The speaker can disintegrate due to age and/or crap getting in it.

Fuel pump: I will take a picture of a 2 stage tonight and get squared away on which is Gas In and which is Gas Out. From there just up to the inlet on the carb, with a filter in between.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-16-2010, 01:02 PM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is online now
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,930
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default Hello and Questions!

Hi Doc,

You threw me with that "tube fuses" in your post. I gather you meant the four electronic vacuum tubes that are in the radio. As JohnG said, there are sources for them. If you do not find them at that place, try the other links. They are available. But yours might be good, if you can get the power to the radio and get it turned on.

JohnG mentioned the radio amplifier unit. That is often hard to come by if yours is shot. There is a lead that comes off of it, that snakes through the dash panel over to the radio. That lead might not be connected to the back of the radio, or it might be cut. Or the amplifier might be bad. As John said, the speaker could be trashed also. You can get a new speaker easily enough from the vendors. You might be able to get an amplifier unit from one of the vendors also, one who specializes in repairing radios that is. If it turns out that your amplifier and radio are both shot, I have a complete working spare unit. Should you need it, you can email or PM me and we can talk. Here are a couple of pix of what the amplifier looks like and it gives you a better idea where it is located. It is that silver looking box to the left of the hood release handle, and right above the parking brake handle.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RadioAudioAmpPowerSupply1.jpg (69.4 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg RadioAudioAmpPowerSupplyEndView1.jpg (83.8 KB, 67 views)
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:41 PM
1946hamm 1946hamm is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 3 2009
Posts: 55
1946hamm is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Doc; Here is a list of the tubes and transistors in your radio. The T-bird radio was made by Motorola and was a hybred radio which means there are tubes and transistors in it. There are several of each of the tubes on eBay most of the time at around $5 each.

The transistors are a different story. The transistors are Motorola and were introduced in 1958 so they are no longer made but some substitutes are available.

12AF6 RF Amp tube
12AD6 Converter tube
12BL6 IF Amp tube
12AE6A Det-AVC-AF amp tube

Driver transistor in the radio tuner is a 2N573 a substitute is 2N1191.

Power transistors of which there are 2 in the amplifier are 2N176 and the best price I have found is around $35. each. A substitute is 2N2143 which can be had for around $5.00 each and should work.

Hope this helps.
Gary
__________________
Gary --- Registry #33728
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:10 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,156
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1946hamm View Post
...Driver transistor in the radio tuner is a 2N573 a substitute is 2N1191.
http://store.americanmicrosemiconduc...FYVk7AodKxBXHA

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1946hamm View Post
Power transistors of which there are 2 in the amplifier are 2N176 and the best price I have found is around $35. each. A substitute is 2N2143 which can be had for around $5.00 each and should work...
Availability and pricing come and go. At times they are $35, but now a 2N176 is $7.40 + S/H:
http://www.hbelects.com/Semiconducto...or-2N176-2N176

These big & bulky germanium transisters are OLD technology, meaning they are very inefficient and outdated. They work, but we have much better transistors that use far less power (and produce less heat). - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:26 PM
BlkBird BlkBird is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 3 2010
Posts: 25
BlkBird is on a distinguished road
Default thanks

ok. thanks for the help with the radio. my uncle gave me the guys name and number here in florida that does a conversion to am/fm stereo and mp3 but keeps the stock one in there. so i think i will go that route. i havent looked for the amplifier and will see what i can see. i would suppose you have to take the whole instrument panel off to get in there, which i really need to do but my uncle took it apart, couldnt get it back on and had to take it to someone to put it back in. this is when the fuel/temp gauge broke and stopped working, fuse for the clock blew (which i fixed) among other things. i would love to know i could take the whole thing off and take a peak at all the wires as i know there is alot of stuff in there i could mess with and replace and might have turn signals. i still havent figured all that out yet. i dont like driving it much because i cant tell how much gas i am using, and i know these cars were NOTORIOUS for overheating. granted my uncle said he didnt have a problem with overheating and the radiator has been boiled out and fixed and it has a SIX blade fan on it which didnt come on them in 59 with or without a/c. a/c is another story HAHA. then again its a llate 66 early 67 352 engine so maybe thats why.

now i have read and read about the fuel pump. i understand it is a fuel pump and vaccum as well. the two prongs on the top are the vacuums apparently. i know that one (that says WIPERS) goes to the wipers from the fuel pump and across the manifold to the passenger side firewall. i have a vacuum leak there and have tried to fix it but the tube goes inside a hole in the fire wall and i dont know how to access it. so therefore it is OK to take that off completely and just plug the prong on the fuel pump? if so i think it would be better than knowing i have a vacuum problem there and letting it be for the time being. the other prong from the fuel pump goes up to the throttle linkage i think, near the carb. i read that it was a brake booster and it maybe because the place it connects to near the carb branches off and goes over to the driver side fire wall I THINK. if this is the case then my new fuel pump that is ONLY A FUEL PUMP will not work or how do i take care of that part of the vacuum since my new pump doesnt have it. this is what has me confused

next. i received my edelbrock carb today. the only plastic piece (elec choke housing) was broke in about 8 pieces. so he is sending a new one. thank goodness as edelbrock wants 32 bucks just for the coil inside and plastic HAHA. i have read on this forum that some have an edelbrock (mine is a 1406 model 600cfm performer series) and they have said it literally bolts on and very few IF ANY adjustments. so i am assuming that means that i do not have to have anything else from edelbrock, such as the linkages they say are used for fords, adapters etc. the spacer i have is the one that is on there now, the reman didnt come with it from the guy i bought it from and only one gasket..... also, on the current set up there is hose (pcv i think) that goes from the manifold into what looks to be UNDER the carb and under the spacer and slid onto that area. this ISNT the hole in the back of the edelbrock i assume????? as mine is plugged with a bolt and if i took it out there will be nothing to slide the hose back on to. i am trying to make sure that when i have a friend come help me and we take the old carb off (only says FOMOCO on it??) i am not stuck waiting on parts that i didnt get or needed to order. so any help with that would be greatly appreciated.

last but not least LOL around the linkages near the carb with all the metal tubes is a clear plastic thing that says PRESSURE REGULATOR. i cant remember the name on it but it looks stock and the name is something that also sounds stock HAHA. its ancient. has fluid which i assume is gas in it. need to know about that as well. whats it doing there? do i need it? what i am trying to do is get rid of the unnecessary late 50's things and use things that are more efficient. i originally wanted to keep EVERYTHING STOCK but since the engine isnt from 59 then i figure the little things like fuel pumps, carb, and maybe headers and intake manifold i will change out. do the disc brake thing and elec wipers but have everything else stock. so if you can help me determine what in the heck some of this stuff is and if its useless if upgraded then all i need to know is what it is and what to replace it with

i really appreciate the help you guys are giving me. i am still reading the tech stuff, looking at pics and learning. matter of fact i thought something was changed with my interior as most of the pics of the inside of some of the birds didnt have the chrome airvents above the radio, then i remembered that although my a/c doesnt work yet, i still have it LOL i also have the ROT sheet i found stuck in the back seat so i will scan and post that in the appropiate spot for those that are interested.

thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-17-2010, 01:23 AM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is online now
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,930
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default Hello and Questions!

Hi Doc,

I am not going to be able to answer all your questions, but I might be able to help with some. Yes, the gentleman in Florida who does the AM/FM Stereo conversions has been at it for many years and is very good. You will have a more modern radio. I am not sure if he uses the face plate that is on yours or not, but that is something you can ask him. As for that amplifier, it is my understanding that if he does that conversion, you will NOT need that amplifier any longer. You can just leave it in place. That panel below the instrument panel should come off easily enough. Then you will be able to get a better view of things up there once it is out of the way.

Your turn signal problem is probably in the steering wheel itself. Read the Technical Tips in the TRL regarding taking the steering wheel off and working with it. You should have a steering wheel puller tool, but it can be done without one.

I, and probably many others have the same problem you have with the gas gauge. I can't tell accurately how much gas I have in the tank. It is something that I need to get fixed. I am tired of guessing. To work that out, you will need to take the gas gauge out of the instrument panel, and open the trunk to get to the hole in the tank that holds the gas sending unit in place. You will need to turn that locking mechanism to unlock it, to get to the sending unit to take it out of the tank. There instructions in the Technical Resource Library on how to do this. Keeping a good ground on it, and having someone else working with you is important. Check the sending unit to make sure it still has its float on it. Check the float to see if it is full of gas. If it is, get a replacement for it. With it full of gas, it will give you bad readings. As you run the sending unit through the rheostat, have someone watch the gas gauge to see if it runs into shorts on the rheostat. You might see it drop down to zero when you are part way through the range, or on the upper range indicating that your tank is nearly full or full. If it kicks down on you, that rheostat is probably bad. If that is the case, you might want to order a new sending unit from one of the Tbird parts vendors. They have them. If the testing shows that the action across the rheostat is good and steady, then your sending unit might be in good shape.

Then it will be a matter of adjusting the back of the gas gauge. There are little pin wheels on the back of the gauge that can be adjusted for minimum and max readings. The instructions for this are in the TRL. You can simulate the tank being full by moving the gauge to the full position. Once there, have the other person try adjusting the gauge as far as it will got towards the F for Full position. Once that is done, move the sending unit arm to the minimum or Empty position and check the reading on the gauge. If it needs to be adjusted, turn the other pin wheel to drop the reading as far down as it will go. When you put the sending unit back in the tank, and secure it, you should be getting a more accurate reading on the gauge. You could test it by filling the tank completely up and check the reading with the sending unit in place. You could then drain the tank to Empty and see what your reading is. You will need something to put about 16 gallons of gas in though, if you try that test. Others might be able to give you better ways to check the gauge and sending unit. Make sure, again, that you have a good ground on the sending unit.

With your radiator having been cleaned out and a six bladed fan in place, you are probably not going to have a problem with it overheating.

If you are going to go the electric wiper route, and you will love it when you do, you are not going to need the wiper connection from the fuel pump. It can be plugged off. I will let others with better technical knowledge than I have comment on your fuel pump and those things. To get to the wiper motor, you have to take off the glove box cover, and take out the glove box. The wiper motor is behind the glove box. You will find information in the Technical Resource Library on how to do this also. My mechanic, when working on the wiper motor, also took out the radio and the AC vent above it.

I have an Edelbrock 1406 carb on Rose. To make the linkage match up to this carb, my mechanic had to modify the linkage flange that everything hooks to so it would hook up right. I hope that will not be the case with yours... Maybe someone with better experience than mine can help you with these questions.

I have no idea what that Pressure Regulator might be, but one of the guys, after looking at the pictures, might be able to help you with that.

It is good that you wanted to keep it original, but since the engine is not original, you might as well make her a safer and better car to drive. Those who have disc brakes and dual master cylinders/dual power boosters say they will never go back to the old system. Same thing for those, like myself, who have electric windshield wipers. I will never go back to vacuum wipers.

Congratulations on finding your ROT sheet! Preserve it in plastic, and make copies of it. Very few people find that important piece of paperwork. In the Technical Resource Library, you will find information on what the various entries in the ROT Sheet mean. If you go to this website, you can check yours. http://www.tbirdsquare.com/ Go over to the Technical tab on the far right side of his website and you will find the ROT Sheet breakdown listed. Click on it and it will tell you a lot about what the various entries mean. Also, on the TRL, you will find the breakdown of the Data Plate and the VIN #. These will tell you what your Tbird left the factory with... You can post your ROT sheet on this Forum, if you wish. We would love to see it. This is lengthy, so I will post it. I hope this information is helpful to you.
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-17-2010, 10:58 AM
BlkBird BlkBird is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 3 2010
Posts: 25
BlkBird is on a distinguished road
Default

thanks for the help rose. i will look into the library.

fuel tank, line, flex hose from fuel line to pump and fuel sending unit are all new. well i say new they were done about a year to a year and a half ago maybe two. but they are new in my world. HAHA. the clock unscrewed and came out completely, i havent messed with the speedometer, but i have tried to do the same thing with the gas gauge and the chrome comes off but not the unit for some reason. it feels like it cant come thru and has to be taken out someway from the back of the panel. clock was not like that.

i just went out and looked at the pressure regulator i was telling you about. this is a pic and i can tell you how it is hooked up. one of the top vacuums goes to the wipers across the manifold, the other on the top of the pump goes up to a connector that is in the manifold then on the other side of the connector it goes out and to the power brake or steering it seems on the driver size. opens into a larger rubber hose. what seems to be going to the pressure regulator is the line from UNDERNEATH the fuel pump that plugs in there. you have two on the old ones on the bottom as well. one is an inlet from tank, other is outlet which is what this is. but it seems to go up to a connector on the regulator i am putting a pic of below, then on the other side of the regulator there is a outlet that is a metal tube that goes INTO the carb. so this is somehow another fuel pressure regulator. see below.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fuel container who knows.JPG (16.7 KB, 78 views)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-17-2010, 12:40 PM
Richard D. Hord Richard D. Hord is offline
Super-Experienced and Proud Kentuckian who bleeds Ford Blue.
 
Join Date: Dec 16 2008
Posts: 2,868
Richard D. Hord is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey Doc,
The fuel/temp gauge (after removing the bezel) should have three small screws holding it in. Your CVR (constant voltage regulator) may be bad! It takes power from the battery and reduces it down to 6 volts. It is usually mounted behind instrument cluster, between speed odometer and fuel/temp gauges. I will see if I can find picture!
I look through my shop manual (one you need if you don't have one) and all I see on the pressure regulator is that it was on the 430 cid engine! One of the 430 guys may be able to help you more!
Keep us posted!
Richard D. Hord
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SolidStateCVR1.jpg (39.5 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg SolidStateCVR2.jpg (41.0 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg SolidStateCVR3.jpg (30.7 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg SolidStateCVR4.jpg (28.1 KB, 80 views)
__________________
'60 Thunderbird "Christine"
Registry #33436

Last edited by Richard D. Hord : 09-17-2010 at 12:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-17-2010, 01:19 PM
tbird430's Avatar
tbird430 tbird430 is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 18 2007
Posts: 2,616
tbird430 is on a distinguished road
Question

I've never seen a 1960 430cid T-Bird, anyways, with a fuel pressure regulator. Maybe it was a Lincoln thing for a couple years...?


-Jon in TX.
__________________

The 1960 Ford Thunderbird. The WORLD'S most wanted car....

VTCI Member#6287.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-17-2010, 01:25 PM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is online now
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,930
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default Hello and Questions!

The CVR unit pictures that Richard posted are of the newer, solid state version manufactured by that US company. They cost about $50, and as far as I am concerned, after having a couple of the regular ones go out on me, well worth the money. You can get the original types for about half that price, but keep in mind that many of them are made in China. I have been told by Tbird parts people that those Chinese ones have a high rate of failure. Your CVR unit might be fine. If your temperature indicator is working right, and you are getting readings on it, your CVR unit is okay, since it supplies power to both. If your temperature indicator is not working either, it could be the CVR unit at fault, or a bad ground or bad temperature sending unit.
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:10 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.