This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 04-26-2010, 10:34 AM
1965TbirdMan's Avatar
1965TbirdMan 1965TbirdMan is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 17 2010
Posts: 77
1965TbirdMan is on a distinguished road
Default Still working out the backfire

Well its been awhile since i talked to you guys but have been busy on the car since, Brakes are all done except for notching the strut arm support to make room for the new master cylinder.

But anyways since i talked to you guys i replaced the points, put a new vacuum advance becasue it was shot, checked the plug wires for arching, also changed the plugs. I rebuilt the carb had some issues in that, like the shop that i got it from but the gasket on backwards(the one between the airhorn and the body. basically the carb wasnt working i had like just a throttle body on it but anyways on to the problem.

I have the car idling and it runs smooth, slight knock in the enigne, probably needs rebuilt thinking maybe a push rod is bad not sure yet. Yes it has oil and water it flushed and changed both and check it each time i start it. I dont appear to be losing oil or burning. But under accleration i get a backfire popping in the carb like pop pop pop. So i tried to losen the distrubutor. The bolt that holds it in is almost out so i know the distrubutor should turn but it barley moves.

IS that a problem in my mind its is also should i adjust the vacuum advance, this new one makes me put an allan wrench into it and turn it clockwise or counter clockwise to adjust the advance what are your thoughts. Thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-26-2010, 01:46 PM
RustyNCa RustyNCa is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: May 31 2007
Posts: 1,301
RustyNCa is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1965TbirdMan View Post
Well its been awhile since i talked to you guys but have been busy on the car since, Brakes are all done except for notching the strut arm support to make room for the new master cylinder.

But anyways since i talked to you guys i replaced the points, put a new vacuum advance becasue it was shot, checked the plug wires for arching, also changed the plugs. I rebuilt the carb had some issues in that, like the shop that i got it from but the gasket on backwards(the one between the airhorn and the body. basically the carb wasnt working i had like just a throttle body on it but anyways on to the problem.

I have the car idling and it runs smooth, slight knock in the enigne, probably needs rebuilt thinking maybe a push rod is bad not sure yet. Yes it has oil and water it flushed and changed both and check it each time i start it. I dont appear to be losing oil or burning. But under accleration i get a backfire popping in the carb like pop pop pop. So i tried to losen the distrubutor. The bolt that holds it in is almost out so i know the distrubutor should turn but it barley moves.

IS that a problem in my mind its is also should i adjust the vacuum advance, this new one makes me put an allan wrench into it and turn it clockwise or counter clockwise to adjust the advance what are your thoughts. Thanks again
The adjustment on the vacuum you are talking about is an adjustment that limits the advance I believe. To be blunt I don't know enough about the FE's yet to know if they like advance or not. On my olds it is turned I think all the way in which limits the advance to the minimum amount. It was still to much advance for the olds, so I gave up and disconnected the vacuum advance.

The fact the whirly won't move sounds like it is just a bit seized by some rust or gunk. You need to get it loose so you can adjust the timing. Have you tried just not running the vacuum advance and seeing how she runs?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-26-2010, 02:20 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,122
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1965TbirdMan View Post
... slight knock in the enigne, probably needs rebuilt thinking maybe a push rod is bad not sure yet...
What kind of knock? Like a tappet knock, a rod knock, or piston ping? I need more info.

Pull your valve covers off and look for a wide lash setting. Spin your pushrods. Look for a worn out cam (the rocker won't move much).

Justin, you may have a burned valve. I'm shooting from the hip, but that would cause the popping noise. You may have worn out bearings which could cause the knock.

If your cam looks ok and your lash adjustments are good, check the valves: I use an air hose with a spark plug welded to the hose fitting. This is a common test. When both valves are closed (the bottom of the Intake or Power stroke), you put air pressure to the cylinder. If either valve leaks, rushing air will come out the intake manifold or exahust pipe. It sounds loud. Do this on all cylinders. You will prove the condition of your valves.

Get back and let us know what you found. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-26-2010, 06:37 PM
1965TbirdMan's Avatar
1965TbirdMan 1965TbirdMan is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 17 2010
Posts: 77
1965TbirdMan is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks so far when i get the chance i will pull the valve covers off and check the the rods and so on. Ill give the car another listen and try to figure out the sound, me and my father are thinking a valve maybe the problem, also we leaned towards a rod making the knock.

As for the vacuum yes we ran it without and when we changed the vacuum line and vacuum advance unit it seemed to do better with acceleration minus the popping under acceleration that is when it does the popping. Ill try some liquid wrench to get the distributor to turn, sprayed with blaster but its been awhile. It does turn like a tiny bit but its not anywhere near easy to turn.

Someone mentioned possibly the timing chain was bad, but id rather start small and eliminate those problems before i dive into any massive projects. Thanks for the help so far
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-26-2010, 09:26 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,122
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1965TbirdMan View Post
...Someone mentioned possibly the timing chain was bad, but id rather start small and eliminate those problems before i dive into any massive projects...
Justin, I cannot think of a better project for any beginning backyard mechanic, than changing the timing chain. You can do it on a Saturday, and drive it that night. A novice with tools and a camera can easily start it on Friday night and have it done on Saturday.

This job will teach you a whole lot about how your engine works. It is not necessary to remove the distributor, but you need to remove the radiator and fan.

I don't want to put the cart before the horse... If your engine needs a major overhaul, a true roller set WILL be part of that job. Pennsylvania has many great engine machine shops. I encourage you to do as much work on your engine, YOURSELF. It might take you a little longer than a pro, but you can do it. Two engine enthusiasts are always better than one. Working together, you can have a new engine at a cheap cost. Whatever tools you don't have, rent (or borrow) them.

HEADS are a major part of an engine. Don't go cheap here. Use good parts, and have all mating surfaces skinned-true at the machine shop (milled .005"). Check valves and guides. My machine shop only charged me $1./each to grind my valves. Then, they were as good as new.

You can do a lot more than you think. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-26-2010, 09:39 PM
1965TbirdMan's Avatar
1965TbirdMan 1965TbirdMan is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 17 2010
Posts: 77
1965TbirdMan is on a distinguished road
Default

I got the distributor lose and it didnt really take the popping sound away i got a video of the knocking sound at idle ill try to put on somewhere and let you take a listen no real image but should be able to hear the sound.

I want to see if its timing related and if i cant get rid of the popping, pretty much i am planning on a rebuild of it, my father is pretty knowledgeable of mechanics, but like you mentioned i am kind of novice, learning from him and from trial and error.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-09-2010, 10:02 PM
1965TbirdMan's Avatar
1965TbirdMan 1965TbirdMan is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 17 2010
Posts: 77
1965TbirdMan is on a distinguished road
Default

Ok so today i final got to dive into my problem i removed the valve covers and oh boy where to begin i first noticed that it was basically a sludge in there on both sides. I have pics of all these so take a look warning its rated r though its pretty scary. Ok so the passenger side was making the knocking sound turns out i had a bent push road third one from the back it was bent at a 45 degree angle or greater pretty bad. Also the sludge was just horrible thick cunky crap like it got really hot and fried. Also looks like a lack of oil. So i am almost sure i have a bad valve on that side. So i plan to get the heads and valves done at a local shop but thinking i will do the rebuild myself. Also when i pulled the intake manifold off same type of sludge goop down their as well. Really looks like it got hot and burned stuff up. I guess my questions are from the pics i will try to post can you tell me do you think a full rebuild is in order i do. Also any hints as to were i can get a resonable priced rebuild kit. I know rock auto has them but NAPA or anything and prices on them. Also any advice or anything would be awesome. I feel that i have found the source of my knock and popping sound would you agree? <br><br>Ok one of two things give me an email address and i will send you the pics or tell me how to put them on here haha<br>
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-09-2010, 10:34 PM
Richard D. Hord Richard D. Hord is offline
Super-Experienced and Proud Kentuckian who bleeds Ford Blue.
 
Join Date: Dec 16 2008
Posts: 2,868
Richard D. Hord is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey Justin,
For you to post pictures yourself you must become a paid member. Above under special announcements, becoming a paid member! Or email the photo's to one of our members for them to post.
Sorry to hear about the problems, but we would still like to see the pictures!
Let me know if I can be of any assistance!
Richard D. Hord
__________________
'60 Thunderbird "Christine"
Registry #33436
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-09-2010, 11:46 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,122
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
...Pull your valve covers off and look for a wide lash setting. Spin your pushrods... Justin, you may have a burned valve. I'm shooting from the hip, but that would cause the popping noise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1965TbirdMan View Post
...i removed the valve covers and oh boy where to begin i first noticed that it was basically a sludge in there on both sides... Also the sludge was just horrible thick cunky crap like it got really hot and fried. Also looks like a lack of oil...
Justin, you did fantastic! We know enough just from your discovery of the sludge.

You can bet the oil pan will have sludge, too. Sludge won't go through the oil pickup screen. Do not attempt to run your engine until all the passages are clean because more hidden sludge will dislodge and ruin your new parts. I suggest you pull your engine, tear it down, and bring the bare block to an engine machine shop.

The first step an engine machine shop does, is to uncover all the holes and remove all the bearings. Then he boils the block, which cleans down to the metal, inside and out. This is important. Water jackets will be free of rust and lime, and oil passages will be clean. I usually have him boil the heads at the same time.

Then, they measure the cylinder bores. If your bores have a ridge at the top, the machinist will determine how much to bore the cylinders; but you need to buy the pistons FIRST. The machine shop will bore and hone to the new piston size.

See how this works? You need the machinist, but he needs your parts. That's why the machine shop usually orders the pistons. So, there is some waiting time involved for some parts to arrive. Then more waiting time for the engine parts to be machined, before you assemble it.

If the crank is scored, tapered, or egg-shaped, let them grind it. THEN, buy bearings according to the new grind size. You may be lucky and not need to grind the crank.

I suspect one or more lifters is loaded with sludge. That's why it failed and bent your pushrod. So, you will need a set of hydraulic lifters.

There are lots of places to buy engine 'kits'. I suggest you use name-brand components. Your engine machine shop can suggest parts you need. Ask his prices for individual parts. He will probably want to give you a TOTAL price, but tell him money is tight and you want to do most of the assembly with your dad. In other words, YOU will buy most of the components, if he can't get them cheaper.

You can get many components on sale, or at a discount when you know what you need.

Send your video and pictures to me at:
simplyconnected@aol.com

When you get the engine out, let me know. I can help you make it run better than 'factory'. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-10-2010, 06:34 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,122
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

1965TbirdMan has sent me four engine pictures, today. Without bias, here they are:









I wanted to get these up ASAP for Justin.

What do you guys think?
- Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:14 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.