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  #1  
Old 12-18-2009, 08:44 PM
Ca58tbird Ca58tbird is offline
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Default Bendix gear disengaging

Back in 2006 Alexander replied to a starter issue post inquiry. I am experiencing the same starter ”bendix gear” issue with my 58 bird. Alexander seemingly explains the disengagement of the bendix prior to start as the norm and attributes such to evaporation of fuel in the carb. I can understand that fuel evaporates, but don’t understand why the bendix disengages the flywheel leaving the starter motor just to spin. Does anybody have any further clues or explanation of why this is or what may be the problem causing the bendix to disengage prior to engine start up? I have searched the archives, but the below is really the only thing I came up with. I shall look forward to other’s advice and experiences.

01-28-2006, 07:29 PM

RE: Starter Rebuild Question

Welcome to the site.

Does the car eventually start after a few times starting it from cold? I find with both my T-Birds, when it has not been run for a week or so, it may crank a few times and then disengage without starting the car. By the third try at starting it almost always starts. I attribute this to the carburetor bowls not being full because of evaporation. It never happens when the car is warmed up. I have come to accept this as normal.

Alexander
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Thunderbird Registry #3810 VTCI#7652

Last edited by Ca58tbird : 12-18-2009 at 08:45 PM. Reason: underline/italics edit
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2009, 10:00 PM
Yellowbird Yellowbird is offline
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Jed,
I took my '58 out tonight for spin. It had been sitting since last Sunday. My normal procedure is to press the gas pedal all the way down twice, then start turning her over. Usually, although not every time, when she tries to start she will kick out the bendix once or twice. Then she will start.
Once she has been run, then I go to re-start there never seems to be a problem. I know this is not technical, just what I've experienced. Hopefully simplyconnected can shed some light on this.

Leonard
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Old 12-19-2009, 01:00 AM
jldevlin jldevlin is offline
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Default Ford Starter

Good Day,

I have replaced my starter twice before I read that the starters used on these and later 352s kicked out as they attempted to start, I remember in my 63 galaxy when i was a kid it kicked out as well when it coughed on start up, I have purchased a new starter and it still does it, the shop who worked on my car replaced the starter 3 times before we realized this model of starter was flacky and actually designed to kick out as soon as the rotation of the motor on start up changed

John
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2009, 11:36 AM
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byersmtrco byersmtrco is offline
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As stated by a 60's Ford technician (parts changer)

"They all do that"
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:19 PM
Ca58tbird Ca58tbird is offline
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I can understand how the bendix gear is designed to disengage after the flywheel spins at a greater rpm then the starter is turning. That is logical. My bendix disengages before the engine fires. I would say that maybe 5-10 seconds and the bendix disengages everysingle time. No chance for the engine to fire. Perhaps the spring or bushing on the bendix on mine that causes it to disengage is worn out and either needs be replaced or need a new starter. Are bendix's replacable? What do you think?
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:36 PM
vernz vernz is offline
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Both of mine does the same thing.....kick out before ever firing. This happens when they have been sitting a while. Both of mine are 430's, but I don't think that makes a difference. I believe that is a normal abnormal.

Vern
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Old 12-19-2009, 07:40 PM
bird 60 bird 60 is offline
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I had the same problem myself when first starting. I would press the Gas Pedal once to engage the Auto Choke. What I do now is to press the Gas Pedal about 5 times & it starts first time every-time.

Chris....From the Land of OZ.
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:32 PM
jldevlin jldevlin is offline
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Default Bendix

In these starters yes a Bendix is replacable, when you get one and pulling apart the starter be careful not to pull the armature out as the brushes riding on them are a pain to get back in position around the armature ...at least that is my memory of it going back 30 years....but yes you can replace the bendix, not sure if it is a bendix problem though as a bad bendix does not engage at all, probably the metal disk that conducts the power is corroded and the resistance after a few seconds of power to it cuts out the bendix, sorry I can't be sure as mentioned I did repairs to these starters on my old fords long ago

Last edited by jldevlin : 12-19-2009 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:48 PM
Ca58tbird Ca58tbird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jldevlin View Post
...probably the metal disk that conducts the power is corroded and the resistance after a few seconds of power to it cuts out the bendix,...
Devlin, thanks for the idea on the electrics. That makes sense about corrosion and resistance. I think I will do some checking on that. Maybe some nice warm balmy day in Dec or January I will jack the Bird up and get down on the cold Minnesota cement garage floor and check the starter electrics out. Brrrr.
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Old 12-20-2009, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowbird View Post
Hopefully simplyconnected can shed some light on this.
Len, I hope this answer does justice to your question.

This is a typical 430 Starter Motor.
The FAY 11002-A is a centrifugal Starter, and one of the least understood. More modern starters use a solenoid to pull on a fork, which engages the Bendix gear. This motor has no fork and it has no solenoid. The device mounted on your fender apron is really a contactor (but we call it a solenoid). This motor only has one wire terminal and the case is used for ground.

Our forefathers at Ford were truly Mechanical & Electrical geniuses. They devised a mechanical “Starter Motor Drive Assembly” that pulls gears towards the flywheel upon motor start strictly by using centrifugal force and kinetic energy. The spring is there to help disengage the gears, but the real retract happens when the flywheel gears goes faster than the starter motor gears.

There are a few glitches to the operation:
* If the starter motor starts slowly, the drive assembly won’t have enough resistance to engage with the flywheel, so it spins freely without advancing.
* If the drive assembly has an extremely dirty shaft, it won’t engage.
* If you ‘bump’ the engine, trying to reach Top Dead Center, the drive assembly might ‘stick’ inside the flywheel, and not retract. This is because the flywheel never went faster than the starter motor, so it didn’t kick the drive assembly back home. No harm done, it will retract next time the engine starts.

Normally, this starter works just fine when used in a normal manner. It is ****-near bulletproof and has open architecture, with a cover (or inspection band).

On a bench, the back and front plates can easily be removed by loostening two long bolts. Re-assembly is just as easy because the four brushes are inserted AFTER the back plate is assembled. Simply pull back the brush spring, insert the brush, and pull on the pigtail to ensure proper ‘slide’ and spring pressure. When done, slide the band back in place and tighten the band screw.

Brushes are only about 1/2" long when new. They are made of copper/bronze and are short, to cut down on resistance. They last a VERY long time. This is a series wound motor, meaning, all the current going through the field also goes through the armature. Magnetic pull (torque) is created by current, and lots of it. The more engine resistance (like in the winter when oil is thick), the more torque this starter delivers because it draws more current. - Dave
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