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  #1  
Old 10-22-2009, 02:48 PM
rickauf rickauf is offline
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Default alternator made to look like generator?

Hi all.
I know this question has been posted a million times. I have searched the web on the bird sites.. glaxies, merc, everywhere.. i see a lot of input.. but no definitive answers.
here is the deal:

i have a 59 vert bird. The generator has given up the ghost. it has the 352 with the low mount genny.

now. my first thought was since i was going to replace, why not convert to an alternator. (my car is a driver.. not a show car)
after some searching in some forums i found a company called CRAP and Crites both have low mount alt brackets for conversions on early fe blocks.. (without changing the waterpump, etc).
ordered both... but now i am told they will not work with a simple (gasp) gm 1 wire alt. i have to get a wire harness , etc and early ford alternator to convert over.

i don't want to rewire, go to a boneyard, etc. no one makes a kit. or does anyone know of a way to hook up a one wire alt?
also.. i cannot find it.. burt i swear i saw a forum about a place that will rebuild your ford genny into an alternator.
has anyone done this? does it work out well, and where is the shop? do they do the conversion such that the external volt reg is just bypassed?

or should i just order a new generator from one of the vendors.. new belt and reg and just put back on what i had.

i would really like an alt.. but have had the car for years with the genny with no problems. perhaps i am overthinking things too much.

i want to keep it simple.

any help, input, slurs, directions, etc are greatly appreciated!

thanks!
Rick
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2009, 03:40 PM
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YellowRose YellowRose is offline
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Default alternator made to look like generator?

Hi Rick,

This subject has been kicked around a lot in recent years. Here is one link. Look in the Technical Resource Library Forum about this. You will find the link to the company that will build an alternator into your generator shell. For about $800 I think! Also a number of us have changed out our generator for an alternator. Some, like myself, went the 1 wire version, and hooked it up through the VR (which, except for some connections is no longer used if your alternator has a VR built into it). Hooking it up through the VR allows us to continue to use the GEN light. There are those who prefer the 3 wire units to. I had to have my GEN support bracket modified to handle the smaller size of the alternator, but it worked. There is plenty of posts on here about generators. Just do a search using the Search button on generator or generators. The easiest way to go, of course, is to just replace the generator with another one. But if you want an alternator, it is not that hard to do. Richard D. Hord and others, should be able to advise you better than me. Here is that link. I think that RustyNCa has the CRAP mounting bracket and an alternator on one of his Tbirds. I have never heard that before that you cannot use the CRAP mount with a GM 1 wire Alt. That is a new one on me!

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...tor+conversion
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Last edited by YellowRose : 10-22-2009 at 03:44 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:44 PM
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tbird430 tbird430 is offline
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Arrow

I think Mac's auto parts sells that same alternator stuffed into a factory Ford generator case. I think the name of thet company who makes this unit is called "PowerGen"?

They are pricey though...


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  #4  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:51 PM
Richard D. Hord Richard D. Hord is offline
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Hey Rick,
Here's what I did some time back and have not had any problem.
Generator to Alternator conversion
Houston we have power!
Boy it was a booger. I'm going to try to explain what I done to complete this project. Special thanks to Ray Clark for all his information and his input.
I tried to contact C.R.A.P. for bracket and never got a response. So I used what I had and it don't look bad at all. And best of all it works!!!
Disconnect and remove battery!
First you want to purchase one wire GM Del-co alternator with internal regulator and pulley. Remove old generator.
Measure from the radiator (the radiator is a stationary point of reference) to get you a dimension to the center line of the crank pulley and the fan pulley, (this dimension should be the same) write this dimension down. The alternator pulley needs to be the same dimension.
If your bracket is like mine it was all one piece, You got the front part that mounts to the water pump, a cross piece that ties to the rear part that bolts to the block.
Take a reciprocating saw and cut cross piece out, close to the back part and close to the front part.
Measure from the radiator back to front part of bracket, write that dimension down.
With pulley on new alternator hold rule, center line of pulley, on dimension you got on fan pulley and crank pulley center line (should be same) see how much you need to get to the front of mounting position on new alternator. EXAMPLE: mine was 3/4"
Remove fan and fan pulley from engine. Remove front part of alternator bracket. Remove upper stud, it will come out with vise grips and twist.
Now you need to make a list of things you need. I needed 12" 7/16" all-thread rod, two lock washers, two nuts, 2" x 3/8" bolt, 3" x 3/8" bolt, 6" x 1/2" ID galvanized pipe, 4" x 1/2" ID galvanize pipe, 3' number 8 wire, wire-end terminals and metric bolt and lock washer to fit Alternator hole for adjustment mounting bracket.
With the extra dimension you need to get front bracket out to be in line with outer pulleys, cut you two pieces off the 4" x 1/2" galvanized pipe (this is best done in vise)
Next is for the replacement for the stud you removed from the water pump. Take the 4" x 3/8" bolt and cut off threads and cut it long enough to accept the top part of front bracket plus shim, drive it into place where stud was and install galvanized pipe shim.
With the pieces of pipe you cut, shim out the front part of the bracket (stud and bolt) Attach front bracket to water pump. Use the 2" x 3/8" bolt.
Now measure from the front bracket to the rear bracket and deduct the Alternator mounting position. (Mine was minus two inches) this will give you the dimension you need to cut the 6" piece of pipe. Cut 6" pipe to that dimension.
Next measure from front bracket to back bracket and add enough to that dimension to except two lock washers, two washers and two nuts. Cut your all-thread rod to that dimension.
Remove tension bracket (mine had two bends in it) get bracket on solid surface and straighten bends with hammer (it needs to be straight) after you have done this reinstall.
Use your all-thread rod, put washer, lock washer and nut on one end. Start this into rear bracket and install pipe you have cut as shim. Work alternator into place and slide all-thread rod threw front bracket. Now install washer, lock washer and nut (hand tighten only) Bracket will be on front of alternator.
Now that alternator is hanging, jack up car set car jack stand in place and get under it. Align lower bracket and install metric bolt and lock nut (hand tighten only) Bracket will be on front of alternator.
Reinstall fan pulley and fan. Install belt. Tighten tension on belt, tighten tension nut and nuts on all-thread rod.
Take ARM wire (yellow wire that was attached to generator) and attach it and new number 8 wire with wire end connector to back of alternator. Tape up other two wires as they are not needed.
Attach other end of new number 8 wire with wire end terminal to battery side of solenoid. (where positive or red battery cable is connected)
Now to the voltage regulator. Gut it, disconnect any connections inside, and underneath, It is not needed, but I left mine because I wanted it to look original. Reinstall and hook it back up the way it was.
Arm post on voltage regulator you should have yellow heavy gauge wire and small yellow wire with black stripe. Go to wires on drivers side at firewall and look for small yellow wire with black stripe, cut it.
Reinstall battery.
Start car and check on fire wall for 12 volts, (I found this at relay in front of passenger) turn car off check for voltage again at that location, if it is dead attach wire then run to yellow wire with black stripe coming through firewall. Tape off other wire coming from Voltage regulator.
Start car and check voltage at ARM and BAT at voltage regulator, you should have 12 volts or a little more. (I had 13volts)
You should now have power and GEN light should go out when car is running.
Richard D. Hord
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2009, 08:19 PM
protourbird protourbird is offline
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The alternator is called a Powergen and is manufactured by Powermaster and can be ordered from most restoration, specialty, or speed shops. They make two numbers a GM and a Ford. Try Summit Racing www.summitracing.com part number 82101 for under $400
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  #6  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:10 PM
rickauf rickauf is offline
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Thanks everybody..

one last question. if i pony up to the powergen.. does it just bypass the VR? or plug in as normal? i guesss if the only reason to get a powergen is to not have to worry about brackets.. i am in good shape as i now have 2.

my Crites bracket and module came in today.. i just don't know about modifying the VR.

i think it would be easier to keeep as is, or elim all together with the "one wire".

i also think i am likely missing something here in the big picture!
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  #7  
Old 10-22-2009, 10:23 PM
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simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
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Richard Hord's picture speaks volumes. It shows how easily anyone can convert to an alternator; in his case, a GM. Richard has given a shopping list of exact parts to buy, cutting dimensions, and complete instructions. His job looks real good and it is plenty strong. Good job, Richard.

This is exactly why there is no kit available, as anyone can make their own for a few bucks.

rickauf, you don't want to go to a bone yard, but the truth is, they throw good alternators away on a daily basis. You can get an alternator WITH the correct wires and plugs for half nothing. (Spending hundreds on an alternator setup is so unnecessary).

I don't have a 352, but I do have a Y-Block, where I bolted a Mustang alternator on the ORIGINAL BRACKETS and it used the original belt. This Ford alternator outputs 75-amps; twice your generator output. It also works exactly the way you would expect. It is self-regulating (so no need for your voltage regulator), and it uses TWO wires. One goes to your GEN light, the rest tie together and connect to your battery terminal.

My conversion has worked flawlessly for many years. Since then, I have retrofit my '59 Galaxie with the same alternator. My site includes the electrical diagram, so you can see where the wires go. This alternator uses two plugs, one from the regulator going to the stator. It is VERY easy to maintain because the brushes are on the back side of the regulator which is held in by two screws. New brushes cost $5, and are good for another 100k miles.

Here's the link:
Y-Block Generator-to-Mustang Alternator Retrofit

Using a little imagination and a few hand tools, you can do this yourself and for very little money.

As a side note, the GM 1-wire alternator doesn't work the way you might expect. That's why I stuck with Ford. - Dave Dare
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 10-23-2009 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:14 PM
protourbird protourbird is offline
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The Powergen is a true one wire alternator with the built in voltage regulator so no you do not have to worry about your current voltage regulator.
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