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  #1  
Old 10-09-2009, 06:20 PM
Frankvv Frankvv is offline
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Default 352 Thunderbird Engine Date Codes

I have a 1959 Thunderbird with a 3 speed manual transmission. The valve covers and head have been resprayed blue, so I didn't think too much about it. I know the block is suppose to be black on the 59, but looking closer the only black on the car is the oil pan: the block and even the water pump appear to be blue. Also, the temp sensor and engine fittings have no overspray marks on them, so I'm beginning to think the engine was replaced with something newer. How do I get an idea as to what year of vehicle this engine came out of? Is there such a thing as a "numbers matching Thunderbird, and if so, what does that mean?
Thanks,
Frank

PS -I took another look tonight and the water pump was black - I scratched of some black paint so maybe somebody was reasonably meticulous about an initial repray, and then later on touched up the valve covers. I need to do some more digging. The valve covers and block are the same color.

Last edited by Frankvv : 10-09-2009 at 08:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2009, 12:15 AM
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You have a rare car there!! I don't know how many manual transmissions were produced but not many!

The reference I have says the 1959 engine has: block, heads, intake, front cover, water pump and oil pan in black. The valve covers were Light Blue with F O R D letters; the air filter white.

The water pump could easily have been replaced.

Fords do not have "matching numbers". Rather the data plate on the door has a date of manufacture. The components have dates of manufacture which should be within 5 to 15 days of the production date (preceding). You look for consistency, not match.

I don't know where the engine date code is on a '59; I hope someone posts who does. On my '58, it is on the lower front passenger side of the block. The casting can be decoded to provide the year, month, day and shift of the production of the block. Similar statements exist about the heads, and intake manifold.

See what you can find, and between everyone here we should be able to reveal the truth about your motor.

John
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Old 10-10-2009, 01:50 AM
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Default 352 Thunderbird Engine Date Codes

Identifying an engine.

I have been doing some research for you as to where to look for numbers on engines and what they might mean.. Maybe something here will help you. These are from past posts on the subject of engine numbers.

From Alexander - 07-23-06

If your car does not have A/C it should be easy to positively identify a FE (the right one for your car). It is stamped "352"
of the front of the drivers side between the water pump and the cylinder head.

KULTULZ - 07-24-06

The intake manifold is cast marked 5750034, it should (I
>think) be marked 5751037.

The above Casting I.D. Nos. is the correct PN sequence for this period FE. A 1959 352 BIRD was shown with 5751087.

Do you see any Stamping I.D. Nos. on the carburetor body itself? The 1958 FORD used the CARTER in addition to the 4100 so it

is very well possible that your installation is correct or possibly changed (carb) at some point. HAWKROD has the period MPC and can chase it down for you if the carb has FORD I.D. Nos.

As for the engine, do you see any casting marks along the right rear pan rail? These will identify the block.

frank58 - 07-24-06

A little more curious info As well as a "7" year code in the engine assy # (see above pic) There is also a "7" year casting # on the intake manifold.

KULTULZ - 07-25-06

BTW- The engine code prefix EDC is 332 and EDG is 352. If a component has EDC, it meant it was 332 specific but could also be used on the 352 if it was designed as such.

tmjsong1aolcom - 07-30-06

The intake 5750034 was a casting number used for 1958 352 engines. The other number was 5751087.

frank58 - 07-30-06

"The "A" in the codes is for the month of November for both the assembly and casting dates. Ford apparently was in a
transition period during the fall of 1957 on how to date-code their castings and assemblies, as the second digit used numbers from 1-9 for January-September, 0 for October, A for November and B for December. With this being the case, a mid-late November '57 assembly date would make sense for an early 352."

LockDown2259 - 03-30-06

http://www.kko.no/WWW_FTP/T-bird/Thu...er/1111111.JPG

tmjsong1aolcom - 04-25-06

Fords did not specifically match engines to serial numbers, but if you want to know if the engine could have been in your bird from the factory that we can tell you, or at least the external parts can tell you.

On each of the external pieces their is and engineering number in the case of the intake it is 5751037. Couldn't read it earlier. But behind this casting number is a date code and based on what I can see it reads 9F 13 decodes to 1959 june 13. From the data plate on your car there is a date code listed. What needs to be is the date codes for the various engine pieces need to be somewhere around 1 week and 1 month prior to the build date of the bird. These are approximate right now as info is sketchy at best.

As for the other pieces that have codes exhaust manifolds, engine block, and heads. I can help you find the locations for all these pieces and decode them for you.

There is one other inteesting place to find info on your engine block. Above the oil filter housing and twords the diver door of the top of the dip stick is a flat somewhat smooth piece of the block that sticks out twords the inner fender well. The info is when the engine assembly date and code for person who did it.

No way to decode who did it but rest of info is available. The stamping is hard to see in the engine bay and sometimes it was not deep so seeing it is a big pain, but the info is there.

All of this info will be contained in the next version of the VTCI concourse rules. We are currently up to 250 plus pages and will probably be much larger than that when finally assembled. Most of the info contained with in this document was compiled by Alan Tast. He should recieve many kudos form the bird community, as this has been one huge undertaking. OK I am now done plugging the concourse rules.

Fuz

Meridious -12-09-07

the tell-tale "352" casting number usually found on the V-8s of these years...on the block near the coil is not there.

frank58- 12-10-07

One other thing you might take a look at before you pull the engine is the assembly date stamped on the drivers front of the engine.

dgs -02-11-08

Here are the numbers I found the passenger side of the block on my '60 (The image is reversed, the letters are actually upside down):

GTE427 - 02-18-08

Upside down casting codes are from Dearborn Foundary
Rightside up casting codes are from Cleveland Foundary

Dearborn (one dot) . = day shift, (two dots) : = night shift.
Cleveland day shift = flat head screw, night shift = round head screw

DIF = Dearborn Industrial Foundary
CF (F inside the C to form a symbol) = Cleveland Engine Foundary

GTE427 - 02-20-08

For clarity, the OFS states the following Block ID codes:

1959 352 - 5750603, 5751091, B9AE6015B
1959-1960 352 - 5750603, 5751091

We do see from this forum that code B9AE6015B was installed during the 1960 model year, possible this wasn't verifed when the OFS was going to print.

It would be common to see a 59 casting code on 1960, if there was no revision to the basic casting, the number could run for years. I understand that a change within the same year would result in the code's suffix letter (revision level) changing to the next higher alpha letter. If the change occured in a subsequent year, the code would change to reflect that year. IE, a change to the basic casting of B9AE6015B during 1959 would result in a revised code of B9AE6015C, whereas a change in 1960 would produce a new code of C0AE6015A.

The OFS is a wealth of knowledge, worth having in your library.
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post
...The OFS is a wealth of knowledge, worth having in your library.
Ray, do we have a file containing the OFS?

By the way, I worked in the Dearborn Iron Foundry in 1971. We also had Cleveland Iron Foundry, etc. They were all named, _ Iron Foundry with one exception: The Dearborn Specialty Foundry (Spec Foundry) made small parts like camshafts, etc. They even made a tiny crankshaft for Briggs & Stratton engines as part of one of our own molds. It cost the foundry practically nothing in materials or labor, and Ford made a nice profit.

Sorry to rant, but there were no "Industrial" in Ford's foundry names. DIF and CIF were the biggies. In 1972 the DIF moved to a new facility in Flatrock, MI under the name, "Michigan Casting Center" (MCC). They cast blocks until 1981, using modern methods, then Ford closed the doors for nearly ten years. When Ford entered a joint operating agreement with Mazda, they used the foundry site to produce the Ford Probe and Mazda's MX-6 coupe and 626 sedan. The joint venture is called, AutoAlliance International. Mustangs were moved from Dearborn and are now produced at AutoAlliance, in Flat Rock, MI.
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Old 10-10-2009, 09:22 AM
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Please find in this post three things of note towards dating your engine block:

1) the attached photo of my 1958 block upside down, and in the sun with the casting numbers decently visible on the right, front side by #1 cylinder

2) the following note written by Alan Tast:

1958 Engine Coding
I have been following the question of date-coding '58 motors, and finally found time to offer what I'm aware of. According to Management Service Letter M-167a, the casting date of motor block for the 352 is supposed to be cast on the side or the front of the block, with the engine's assembly date stamped on a machined pad/boss just below and forward of the #1 cylinder exhaust port on the driver's front corner of the block (the dipstick tube passes by it).
Casting codes were also given in the bulletins. In '58, the block casting date can be found either on the front surface of the block to the right of the water pump or on the right side of the block in the area of the #1 cylinder. For instance, 8AS:2 translates into 8=1958; November; S=18th Day of Month; 2=Casting shift.
The coding should include year, month, work shift and date along with assembly plant code.
To quote the Bulletin for the casting date: "...codes use a number to indicate the year. The second figure may be either a number or letter to indicate the month as follows: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-A-B. The third symbol is either a screw head for Cleveland buit units (flat for the day shift or round for the night shift) or a letter for Dearborn built units to denote the day of the month (A through Z with the exception of I, and inverted A through F).
An illustration is also shown for the assembly date code. For example, it gives 3-8BFP. The first figure indicates the assembly plant (1-Cleveland Plant #1, 2-Cleveland Plant #2, 3-Dearborn Engine Plant); the second digit indicates year; third digit indicates month, and fourth digit indicates day. The fifth digit is a mark assigned to an inspector at the plant.
Therefore, 3-8BFP translates to: 3=Dearborn Engine Plant; 8=1958; B=February; F= 5th day of month; P=Inspector's Code
The 430's assembly date is supposed to be stamped on the block in front of the left head, according to the '60 bulletin M-204.
Additional cast codes on the block: DIF means Dearborn Industrial Foundry, while Cleveland-cast blocks have a C and L imposed on each other (similar to the symbol for Center Line). An engine's casting foundry can also be ID'ed as follows: all 352 blocks have the number 5750603 cast on the right side of the area of #1 cylinder: Dearborn cast this number upside down, Cleveland right side up. The 430's were all cast at Dearborn, have number 5752001 cast on the right side of the area of #1 cylinder and have "DIF" foundry marks.
Q.E.D.
Alan H. Tast ,AIA President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l., Author, "Thunderbird 1955-66"

Alan or others may comment on how this information does or does not carry over to 1959.

3) Response from Fuz (TMJsong1 )on the location of block casting numbers:
The block casting numbers for all three years 352's are in the same place. It appears that the 430 has the same locations. Does he have a 352 or a 430??

Attached Images
File Type: jpg block_casting_2.JPG (74.5 KB, 200 views)
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:52 AM
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Default 352 Thunderbird Engine Date Codes

Hi Dave,

The Vintage Thunderbird Club International (VTCI) owns the Official Factory Specs (OFS). You can get it in book form, as I recall, and on a CD. I do not know if you have to be a member or not to buy it. I am a member. It is not cheap, but when it comes to information regarding the Squarebirds, it is very worthwhile having. I think the CD was $50.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:46 AM
Nasty51ford Nasty51ford is offline
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Default 1959 352 4 BBL Intake Manifold

Hello, I'm doing a restoration on a friend's 59 Skyliner, I purchased a 59 352 4 BBL engine for the car, but the intake is so rusted inside that it will be near impossible to get cleaned up. I have located another intake, but it has a 5751034 casting number, which I know is a 1958 number, did Ford use those on 1959 352 engines also? This car will be shown, and judged (Concours) so "correct" numbers are important, the original intake has the common 1959 5751087 casting number. Thanks in advance for any help, this website is great !! Also, if anyone out there has a 1959 352 4 BBL intake for sale, I would be very interested, I also need a "cam button" for the engine, no one seems to make them, or reproduce them, and we already had a 1959 cam reground for the car, so I can't really do the thrust plate conversion now.
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post
Hi Dave,

The Vintage Thunderbird Club International (VTCI) owns the Official Factory Specs (OFS). You can get it in book form, as I recall, and on a CD. I do not know if you have to be a member or not to buy it. I am a member. It is not cheap, but when it comes to information regarding the Squarebirds, it is very worthwhile having. I think the CD was $50.
Yes, you do need to be a VTCI member to buy an OFS. They are grouped by generation (55-57) ect. If you're restoring a Thunderbird it's the only way to go.http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.or...tore_books.htm
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:01 AM
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While searching for an early post, I came across this thread and thought I would offer a remedy for this situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty51ford POSTED 05-25-2011

Hello, I'm doing a restoration on a friend's 59 Skyliner, I purchased a 59 352 4 BBL engine for the car, but the intake is so rusted inside that it will be near impossible to get cleaned up.

I have located another intake, but it has a 5751034 casting number, which I know is a 1958 number, did Ford use those on 1959 352 engines also? This car will be shown, and judged (Concours) so "correct" numbers are important, the original intake has the common 1959 5751087 casting number. Thanks in advance for any help, this website is great !! Also, if anyone out there has a 1959 352 4 BBL intake for sale, I would be very interested, I also need a "cam button" for the engine, no one seems to make them, or reproduce them, and we already had a 1959 cam reground for the car, so I can't really do the thrust plate conversion now.
When a properly numbered part has to be used/saved-

-EXTRUDE HONING-
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