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  #11  
Old 08-30-2009, 02:44 PM
vernz vernz is offline
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I bought a manual vacuum bleeder at Harbor Freight It's only $15 and it worked great. Plus I didn't need to involve the wife (and aforementioned pay back dinner). Here's a link to see the unit:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92474

Vern
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2009, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Leavens View Post
Dave great pixs on the conversion and thanks for the post.
Dan, I hope not too many pics, but I like to see as much detail as possible. Glad to help my fellow restorers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post
Never heard of bench bleeding the old style m/c - think that procedure came about with the split systems later...
... Usualy have to do this 20 or more times...
...Who makes it - will it fit the Tbird? How much?
...special order my banjo bolts from Calif. My calipers came with the stock Granada hoses...
...Make sure you have plenty of line, bending tools, flaring tools etc to install the new hard lines to the prop. and residual valves.
Eric, bench bleeding is done with new or rebuilt (dry) M/C's. Most brake jobs start out using the OEM M/C that is not dry. Remember those 20 strokes? Bench bleeding takes the output line and puts it right back into the reservoir.
Just make sure the return lines are submerged in the fluid and it is level. Some places sell plastic kits, but you can bend old, short, brake lines.
You still pump the same 20 strokes (one inch at first, then full strokes), using a phillips screwdriver. It's easy to see when the bubbles stop. The fluid recycles so there is no waste and you don't need much fluid. Doesn't matter whether the M/C is single or dual. When done bench bleeding, the fluid remains in the reservoir, put the cap back on for mounting, then the same 'wife's foot' method can be followed, only it won't take 20 pumps to complete.

Who makes it? I found it on eBay, and I forget the brand, but they have a kit for T-birds. Because the bracket uses (GM) S-10 pickup parts, they are VERY available everywhere, including banjo bolts. I don't remember my Granada calipers (on the '55) having banjo bolts, the hoses simply screw into the back. You're right about having good tools. My auto parts store has line that won't rust with a high copper content. Fabulous stuff, but ~$2/ft. I plumbed both my classics with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
I believe there are two different sized pistons on the stock TBird MCs, so it seems like anyone would want the larger one...
John, my concern is that he might have started with a larger-bore M/C, then bought a replacement with a smaller bore. This makes pedal pressure MUCH easier, but he won't get the volume to spread those shoes as far. If he uses a residual valve (and keeps his brakes adjusted), it will be fine, using the new M/C. I still can't rule out trapped air in the M/C until he bench-bleeds.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2009, 10:26 PM
Astrowing Astrowing is offline
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The problem I had with the brakes was the star adjuster/rod on the left rear had dropped out of position. I'm still not real happy with the pedal height, especially with the power brakes. It does stop now and we took it out for a 15 mile maiden voyage this evening.

I was not aware there were two master cylinders on the '58. I just ordered one that fit a '58 with power brakes. I assume that I got the right one.

I think the disk brake conversion is on the list of items to do. And I think I'll do it coincident with the front end rebuild which starts shortly. The wheel change was a problem I was aware of and one that makes it pretty expensive when it's all said. Do we have a list of every bit of hardware that is required somewhere?
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  #14  
Old 08-30-2009, 10:30 PM
Astrowing Astrowing is offline
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I did bleed multiple times with a vacuum bleeder, and then I came back and bled again multiple times with the wife pushing the brake pedal. I did not bench bleed the M/C because I've always gotten a good pedal eventually with multiple bleeds. Are you saying I won't ever get there without bench bleeding?
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2009, 10:31 PM
Astrowing Astrowing is offline
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It does sound like the tire rubbing issue is due to the very worn arm bushings and ball joints. Time for a rebuild!
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2009, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrowing View Post
Are you saying I won't ever get there without bench bleeding?
No, in honesty, the factory evacuates the system, checks for leaks, then if ok it fills the brake system (all in one hook-up that takes 30 seconds).

I don't know how deep your vacuum goes. If it is anywhere near the factory's you won't need anyone's foot. They fill with the system closed-up.

Oh, here's a fault with the factory system: They can't tell if a cylinder is missing the hydraulic hole for the piston. It happened to me on an old Pontiac Tempest. The right rear brake lining always looked like brand new, even after 30K.

I discovered the shoes were never moving, so I pulled the wheel cylinder apart. Dry as a bone! Removed it from the back plate and found the hole from the brake line to the inside was missing! What did I do? Being a young kid with no money, I drilled my own. Worked like new forever more.
- Dave
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  #17  
Old 08-31-2009, 08:18 AM
protourbird protourbird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
Jim, I found the Stainless Steel Brake website and the A152 application for Squarebirds but it states "stock wheels will not clear" so I am still in the hunt...

john

http://www.ssbrakes.com/content/imag..._web_small.pdf
John,
The reason I suggested these was that you could keep your new tires by an upgrade to a 14X7 Mustang or Galaxy wheel. Good luck on your search
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2009, 01:01 PM
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JohnG JohnG is offline
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hi Jim

thanks! That helps! But... what specific wheels would I need?? Is there an identifying number or anything else?? Is this a salvage yard search or can you buy new equivalents?

any specific information that ended up with me finding the right wheels on the first try I consider invaluable...

John
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  #19  
Old 09-01-2009, 12:18 AM
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byersmtrco byersmtrco is offline
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Which sway bar(s) are you running? You have SSBC brks too?

I'd love to see pics of that AOD !!!
I am REALLY curious how this is going to turn out.





Quote:
Originally Posted by protourbird View Post
John,
The reason I suggested these was that you could keep your new tires by an upgrade to a 14X7 Mustang or Galaxy wheel. Good luck on your search
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  #20  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:43 AM
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DKheld DKheld is offline
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You will get there without bench bleeding.

It would help by having the cyl full of fluid initially by bench bleeding but not necessary and after a few strokes the m/c would be full. You could actually do the "bench" bleeding with the m/c installed in the car and the brake line rerouted to the reservoir. With the m/c installed it is easier than fumbling with it on a "bench". Bench bleeding is just a phrase anyway for pre bleeding the master cyl. - it doesn't really need to be done on the bench.

When you replace the m/c - the brake line has been seperated from the m/c and intoduced air into the line so even bench bleeding won't eliminate that air because it is after the m/c. The system is a single line system at that point so any air intorduced where you seperated the m/c line could end up going to any wheel. That air in the line is what has to be pushed or vac'ed out.
Using the buddy system I have always had good luck. The trick is to open the w/c valve just after the pedal is pressed (so it will build up slight pressure to push the air out) and to close the w/c valve before the pedal is released. Keep doing it until you dont see any bubbles coming out at the w/c and make sure the reservoir stays full. I use clear tubing and a clear container at the w/c to monitior for bubbles.

If your at all interested in the Granada disc setup I'll look at my wheels and see if they have any p/n's on them. Not sure they would work with the GM bracket "kit".

Kanter front bushing kit fit right - wasn't the cheapest but it was right.

Just a word of caution on the disc systems - as far as I know there are no COMPLETE power brake disc kits out there. You'll be fabricating and finding. Don't forget the original m/c is designed for drum brakes - it shouldn't be used on a disc system so you will need to change the m/c. I never found a disc/drum m/c that would fit the stock under hood booster so you will either have to replace the booster or have it modified if you have that type. Replacing the booster means working on getting the correct pedal rod to have correct pedal height. (nothing I hate more than hitting your chin with your knee when going from the gas to the brake pedal and that can happen with the wrong pedal rod).

What I'm saying here is that there are no complete kits - don't expect to do a good conversion in an afternoon or even one weekend. A good example is that I bought a stock Tbird booster that had the front part changed so that it would accept a modern dis/drum m/c. Basically its a Tbird booster with a Lincoln face. The Lincoln and Tbird boosters are the same in the middle just the front face and mounting bracket are different. Purchased the disc/drum m/c required. Great - everything fit no modifying the pedal bracket or rods, pedal height the same, came with a master cyl rod the right length so it should have only taken a few hours to swap. Could not get the rubber seal that goes between the booster and the m/c - it's not made. Finally found a plumbing seal that was the right diameter but it took time - couple of hour job turned out to take all day and then some.

I did mine 5 or 6 years ago so the Granada conversion was all there was for a power brake setup - lots more parts are available now and those brackets are from Scarebird on ebay for $155 - never used them but if I had to do it over again that's the way I would go.

Eric
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