This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #271  
Old 08-25-2010, 01:54 AM
byersmtrco's Avatar
byersmtrco byersmtrco is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 28 2004
Posts: 1,610
byersmtrco is on a distinguished road
Default

Considering next for year;

SSBC has a kit (compatable w/my frt disc set up) for rr disc.
10" rotors and bolt on. According to them, even my M/Cyl will work
with the adjustable prop valve. Just back it all the way off as opposed
to all the way up as it is right now.
Four wheel disc !!! Yeah Baby !!!! She'd stop like a Winston Cup Car w/that !!!! From a safety standpoint I'm really thinking about it.

I did have to (use) the disc brakes last Sunday. I was on 580 on the other side of the Altamont headed towards the Central Valley (Anyone familiar w/this part of Calif knows the stretch I mean - down hill . . . flow of traffic doin' 80) And it all came to a halt because of a roadside fire (in the center) Had to brake HARD. No problem. Came right down to 10 mph w/room to spare.
So yeah . . . Can't beat having good brakes.
__________________
John Byers
1960 Convertible (Orig owner)
Pic of car with my son Justin (15 Y/O 6'1")
Poss 3rd Gen T/B owner
Reply With Quote
  #272  
Old 11-16-2010, 07:07 AM
Howard Prout's Avatar
Howard Prout Howard Prout is offline
Tinkerer
 
Join Date: Feb 11 2009
Posts: 435
Howard Prout is on a distinguished road
Default

I ran all summer with my converted disc brakes and all went well. However, I was uncomfortable with how close the brake pedal went to the floor. The solution seemed to be to reduce the amount of brake pedal travel. This can be accomplished by increasing the leverage ratio on the pivot arm. The down side of this is that it also increases the amount of foot pressure required for braking. So yesterday I repaced the hockey stick brake push rod with a straight one and connected it to a lower point on the pivot arm. However in the process I also realized that a longer push rod would move the brake pedal to a rest position higher from the floor, so I made a second straight push rod 1/8" longer and installed it. The brake pedal now sits a little higher than the gas pedal and has a comfortable amount of travel. However, it does require more foot pressure than before. I now think another iteration is worth trying - to keep the hockey stick configuration but make it a bit longer.

As an aside, I am currently using both the KH booster and the new MTM booster. When I was putting things back together, the trigger arm for the KH booster was bent making it inoperative. The brakes were very stiff. I then realized that the KH unit was not working, figured out what the problem was and fixed it, so the KH unit is working again. It makes a big difference. So my suggestion to those planning to do a disc brake conversion is to run both boosters.
__________________
"Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

Last edited by Howard Prout : 11-16-2010 at 10:27 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #273  
Old 03-14-2011, 06:13 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jan 17 2011
Posts: 660
davidmij is on a distinguished road
Default

I just read this entire thread from start to finish - 5 1/2 hours of making notes! More than 2 years of threading! I'll eventually sort out all the info, but right now I think I'd like to just change my original 1 line MC to a 2 chamber for safety sake. I'm never gonna drive this car more than 75 miles from home, and maybe not even that.
Can you guys tell me if it's possible to not add another booster if you go to front disc brakes? I think I read somewhere here that i won't have enough leg power to make it work.

- Dave
Reply With Quote
  #274  
Old 03-14-2011, 09:16 PM
DKheld's Avatar
DKheld DKheld is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Aug 27 2008
Posts: 1,434
DKheld is on a distinguished road
Default

I have rebuilt and used both systems - original drum and Granada disc setup (assuming a 352 non a/c car with the booster in the engine compartment).

The easiest way (maybe not the least expensive) to change to a dual circuit master cyl is to send the booster off and have the face changed to a newer style with 2 bolts. (Power Brake Booster Exchange - mine cost about $250 but I just bought one outright to keep my old original one) Many dual drum master cyl's are available in the 2 stud style (late 60's Mustang etc) but I don't know of any 4 stud style dual drum master cyls. Using the modified original booster you don't run into all the problems associated with pedal height, different booster pressures, pedal rod length, etc. Nothing is changed from the booster back. The booster face supplied accepts a Lincoln disc/drum master cyl but I bet the folks at Power Brake Booster Exchange would supply a drum/drum master cyl.

NCbird took an original Tbird booster apart and it looks like you could modify an existing one to accept the 2 stud style master cyl so that would be cheaper and easier than sending off the booster for modification.

HOWEVER - even if you change to a dual circuit drum master cyl the original Tbird setup has only one line from the master cyl to the brake system so the dual circuit master wouldn't make an difference. If that single master cyl line, any other line or cyl fails the whole system is leaking - pressure goes away and the entire system fails.

To make it a true dual circuit you would need to separate the front and rear systems. I did that at the junction block on the frame. I ran 2 new lines to the front wheels and used the existing lines and junction block for the rear and brake light.

Additionally in my disc/drum system I have a combo valve in line that regulated front and rear pressures and has a shuttle valve to shut off the system that fails. (sold many places but got mine from Master Power Brakes - $125)

This is my system all stock from the face of the booster back and the Granada disc spindles. If I had it all to do over again the only thing I would change is that I would use the scarebird brackets on the original spindles mostly because of alignment issues on the Granada spindles.




Eric
registry 5347
http://www.tbirdregistry.com/ft.asp

Last edited by DKheld : 03-14-2011 at 09:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #275  
Old 03-15-2011, 09:40 AM
davidmij davidmij is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jan 17 2011
Posts: 660
davidmij is on a distinguished road
Default

Thx Eric,
I don't have a booster in the engine compartment - I have the accordion style H&K booster under the dash. I will keep that and try to find a dual cylinder MC to replace my single cylinder one. I have the 352 W/O a.c. so no worries room wise. If I do that can I just separate out the front and back lines, and use the larger cylinder for the front end? Does anyone make a dual cylinder MC that is perhaps 70/30 pressure wise?
I will trace out all existing lines and make sure there is no rust. I will replace all the rubber in the lines, and either rebuild or replace the wheel cylinders. That should make it drivable for the next few years. I'll only be driving it down the street and back to make sure it works. Eventually I'll go to disc front, but that could be 5 or 10 years down the line. This car is going to be a Rat Rod style vehicle. Junkie interior, no paint other than whatever my daughter wants to do with a spray can and her artistic talent. Eventually it'll have a 4 on the floor and a low posi-trac rear end. When ever I start playing with this car I just can't stop! It's so much fun to tear into and see how stuff works.
My point is, I don't want it to be perfect or original in any way shape or form, just something to do when I'm killing time.
If you want to see pictures go to my "picasa" link; https://picasaweb.google.com/1014928...zpxazQnbj8uAE#

thx, Dave
Reply With Quote
  #276  
Old 03-15-2011, 09:54 AM
Dakota Boy's Avatar
Dakota Boy Dakota Boy is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 30 2009
Posts: 1,498
Dakota Boy is on a distinguished road
Default

You can get a dual master for a drum/drum car from NAPA for about 50 bucks. Search on thier website for master cylinders for a "1967 Mustang". Ford Shop Manual lists the m/c bore diameter for a power brake-equiped car as 1-1/8"; and a 1" bore for 'birds without power brakes.

In regards to the 70/30 question you have below, I think I read somewhere on here (from a member far more knowledgeable than me) that the wheel cylinders on an all-drum car were sized differently so as to already give the proper proportioning front to back.
Reply With Quote
  #277  
Old 03-15-2011, 10:05 AM
davidmij davidmij is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jan 17 2011
Posts: 660
davidmij is on a distinguished road
Default

Thx Dave, I just finished reading your thread about doing yours this way. "getting ready to run the new brakes lines". That's most likely what I'll do for now too. I don't have the money right now to do the disc/drum setup.
So to clarify; we can keep the front and back lines completely separate from each other and do the plumbing with the front brakes to the firewall side line on the MC - in case we end up going to the disc/drum at a later date?
Reply With Quote
  #278  
Old 03-15-2011, 04:48 PM
Dakota Boy's Avatar
Dakota Boy Dakota Boy is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 30 2009
Posts: 1,498
Dakota Boy is on a distinguished road
Default

yes, that is my plan....
Reply With Quote
  #279  
Old 03-15-2011, 10:06 PM
DKheld's Avatar
DKheld DKheld is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Aug 27 2008
Posts: 1,434
DKheld is on a distinguished road
Default

David,
I'm not sure about the 70/30 split on the system either. I was told by the folks at Master Power Brakes that my combo valve was all I would need on my disc/drum system so I didn't go any further. You would enjoy the discs but just as well you will REALLY enjoy the discs after having the drums and converting. I had many reasons for converting but mainly to pull a wheelchair on a trailer.

Followed your link - great car to start from. Since you aren't concerned about originality you can probably just put bigger bolts on the firewall and stick a different master cyl on them, use what you have or however you decide. Power Brake Booster Exchange could probably rebuild that under dash booster as well if you want power brakes. That's kind of weird to have the under dash booster and no A/C but your dash definitely does NOT have the A/C vent blank cut out so guess that's how it came unless it was changed over the years.

Noticed the cloth inserts on the back seats - does your data plate say trim code 76? which would be factory cloth seat inserts (a little more rare than the vinyl or leather). Or maybe 76 trim code was just for the 60 model - anyway not as many cloth seat insert cars either 59 or 60. Mine is a 60 so more familiar with those.

Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.

Eric
Reply With Quote
  #280  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:19 AM
Howard Prout's Avatar
Howard Prout Howard Prout is offline
Tinkerer
 
Join Date: Feb 11 2009
Posts: 435
Howard Prout is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post
David,
... That's kind of weird to have the under dash booster and no A/C but your dash definitely does NOT have the A/C vent blank cut out so guess that's how it came unless it was changed over the years...
That is the way mine was when I got it - KH booster and no AC. There was n o slot in the firewall for the AC unit. It's a little different now, AC and KH + MTM booster for disc/drum brakes.
__________________
"Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:00 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.