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  #221  
Old 03-13-2010, 12:43 PM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byersmtrco View Post

You "could" always do away with the snorkle. I'm sure that 430 won't miss that!! It's not like it's going to look totally orig under the hood. The pre-heat tubes (exh/manif) to snrkle was just a way to warm the eng up faster (for emission purposes only).
Here I go clashing with the brass again...

The 430 MEL had no exhaust gas crossover provision in the intake. For cold air operation, it relied on the specially designed Three-Stage Cooling System that heated the carb pad with hot coolant. The heated air intake was to allow heating the fuel mixture (via choke hot air stove) and keep it in suspension until the coolant temp rose and the choke/fast idle finally kicked off. It also had a flapper valve at the inlet that opened and allowed under hood air in once the engine warmed.

That particular part of the design called for the block thermostats to be operational and we all know they have been deleted in most applications and are not available for service. So actually, that inlet duct is important unless one lives and operates in warm ambient temps all parts of the year.

On LINC-MERC applications, there was a fresh air inlet tube attached to bring in outside cool air.

I will now duck back into my spider hole to hopefully miss any incoming.

BTW- Those fabricated brackets are nicely done.
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  #222  
Old 03-14-2010, 01:25 AM
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byersmtrco byersmtrco is offline
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Talking

.................................................. ................

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
Here I go clashing with the brass again...

I keep forgetting I live in pretty much a non-choke climate. I've even removed the choke butterfly before and just used the fast idle.
I know (nothing) about these 430's. I just figured it was a TAC snorkle like any other (where most have been removed). I didn't realize it was so integral to the eng warm up.
I'm sure if I did have a 430, it would have the big ol' 750 Edelbrock Carb on there with the electric choke.

The 430 MEL had no exhaust gas crossover provision in the intake. For cold air operation, it relied on the specially designed Three-Stage Cooling System that heated the carb pad with hot coolant. The heated air intake was to allow heating the fuel mixture (via choke hot air stove) and keep it in suspension until the coolant temp rose and the choke/fast idle finally kicked off. It also had a flapper valve at the inlet that opened and allowed under hood air in once the engine warmed.

That particular part of the design called for the block thermostats to be operational and we all know they have been deleted in most applications and are not available for service. So actually, that inlet duct is important unless one lives and operates in warm ambient temps all parts of the year.

On LINC-MERC applications, there was a fresh air inlet tube attached to bring in outside cool air.

I will now duck back into my spider hole to hopefully miss any incoming.

BTW- Those fabricated brackets are nicely done.
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  #223  
Old 03-18-2010, 11:23 AM
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Default Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

Gary ~ 1946hamm, has just completed his disc brake conversion. Here is what he had to say and also some pix of his installation and his '60 Convertible stick shift Tbird. Posted with his permission.

"I thought I would update you on my disc brake conversion. I got the power booster and master cylinder installed. I used a GM combination valve since it mounted under the master cylinder and made running the brake lines easier. I also mounted the stop light switch plumbed into the rear brake line right beside the master cylinder and secured to the fender well as in the picture. I took the lines for the front brakes out of the original block where they all come together and used 2 plugs to plug the extra ports on the original 4 port block . I then had to only run one line up to the combination valve for the rear brakes. I ran a separate line to the left front disc brake caliper and a separate line over to the right front caliper. This made only 3 new lines and all were easy to run. I bench bled the master cylinder with the combination valve attached so the only bleeding was for the new lines. It worked out well. On the road test I found out I need new shocks since the brakes worked so well. It is unbelievable how much better it stops now.

I also fabricated a fan shroud from one I got off of eBay. Fit the newly cored radiator well. I also included some pictures of that. I also put on a 6 bladed fan in place of the old 4 blade."

Ohh, he also said that he put on an alternator to replace the old generator. New belts and new hoses, new tires and wheels also. His disc brake conversion is detailed in the Technical link below. Here are the pix.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1946hammMastercylandlines.jpg (22.0 KB, 195 views)
File Type: jpg 1946hammMastercylandlines2.jpg (20.4 KB, 193 views)
File Type: jpg 1946hammFanshroud.jpg (17.8 KB, 194 views)
File Type: jpg 1946hammFanshroudfromfront.jpg (19.8 KB, 192 views)
File Type: jpg 1946hamm1960T-Bird.jpg (56.1 KB, 193 views)
File Type: jpg 1946hamm1960Bird2.jpg (69.5 KB, 191 views)
File Type: jpg 1946hamm1960Bird3.jpg (62.5 KB, 193 views)
File Type: jpg 1946hamm1960Bird5.jpg (55.0 KB, 191 views)
File Type: jpg 1946hammNewWheels.jpg (39.8 KB, 191 views)
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Last edited by YellowRose : 03-18-2010 at 01:10 PM.
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  #224  
Old 03-18-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1946hamm View Post
...It is unbelievable how much better it stops now...
What a great job! Everything looks like it belongs there, and I like how accessible the brake light switch is.

Looks like Gary found, his brakes are working so well the front end dives under hard braking and bounces back up when the car stops. Now you can drive with confidence, when those little cars zoom in front of you and hit their brakes in traffic. Good going, Gary. - Dave
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  #225  
Old 03-19-2010, 07:24 AM
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Nicely done, Gary. My plumbing is not as neat and tidy as yours. The first pix shows my booster, MC and proportioing valve. The second pix shows the stop light switch. I'm still struggling with my installation. The booster mounting bracket and pushrod are still giving me trouble and I'm not sure I have the booster/MC interface interface issues resolved. Apparently I was supposed to get a "slug" to go between the booster and MC but didn't get one so I used a longer machine screw on the output shaft from the booster to engage the MC. Dave Dare (simplyconnected) had an extra proportioing valve and has sent it to me so I will try it when it gets here. However I now think the PV I have may be working properly.

Where did you get your booster bracket? What did you use for a pushrod? Did you have a problem with interference with the steerng column? I didn't see any pictures of the booster installation, do you have some?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 17. Corrected plumbing of MC to Proportioning valve.jpg (411.9 KB, 187 views)
File Type: jpg 16. Stop light switch mounted on MC.jpg (433.3 KB, 185 views)
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  #226  
Old 03-19-2010, 09:25 AM
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Howard; I got the booster M/C and bracket from MBM thru Carolina Trucks. The bracket was suppose to fit a Ford. It didn't have enough rise to clear the back-up light switch and the steering column since my car has a straight stick and the shift linkage hit. I ended up using my old booster bracket and modifying it to fit the MBM booster. The original pedal link was retained since it was my original bracket. I had to cut a hole and bend the sides to clear the snout on the MBM booster. I also had to enlarge the bracket holes to fit the MBM studs. They were about the same size but not quite. The original bracket piviot linkage was retained to hook up to the booster rod.
I had the slug you're talking about in the master cyl. so that was not a problem. The master cyl. supplied only had ports on one side so I had to plumb the stop light switch in a tee. The combination valve I used was designed to mount on the side of the Master cyl. but it stuck out too far and hit the fender well so I mounted it under the master cyl. instead. That worked better anyway. I got a ford combination valve from Ray but could not get it to mount the way I wanted.
I am going to have to remove the booster and put a jam nut on the push rod that goes into the booster. I thought it would be OK but it has to have a jam nut on the rod to keep the booster rod from turning by itself which causes the brake pedal to lose all the free play and makes the brakes drag and the brake light stay on also. When the engine is running the vacuum lets the rod spin real easy if no jam nut is there to stop it. I had to cut the booster rod to fit and put the clevis on without the jam nut. My mistake.
The reason I asked you about your piviot linkage a few days ago was to get an idea of the mechanical advantage gained or lost by the lever setup thus making the stroke of the booster too long. My original stock piviot had the brake pedal rod which curves inside the piviot so it attaches in the center of the piviot so the stroke of the pedal is the same as the stroke of the booster rod. If the pedal rod is closer to the bottom of the piviot the stroke of the booster rod stroke will be longer than the pedal stroke. I don't know how much of a problem that might create if any.

If you have any questions just ask. I will help if I can.
I hope this helps some,
Gary

Here are some pictures of the booster mounted to the original bracket and of the original ford bracket. These were a rough-in of the setup. I also spaced the booster from the bracket a little more as can be seen in the pictures.








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  #227  
Old 03-19-2010, 08:04 PM
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Gary: I'm surpriised you didn't have to raise the booster more than you did. I raised mine 5 inches above the center of the brake pushrod in order to get enough height to clear the valve cover.

Things have changed at lot since I answered your prevous post. The leverage ratio on the pivot arms was far too high. I ended up using a 'hockey stick" pushrod to get a pushrod leverage ratio of 1.875. Yours looks close to that. I also found that I had to stiffen the pivot arms to reduce the amount of sideways bending in them. The attached drawings show where I am at the moment.
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  #228  
Old 03-19-2010, 09:43 PM
1946hamm 1946hamm is offline
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Howard; Looking good. The original pedal rod on mine looked like the hockey stick shape you describe. The original ford booster bracket had a 4" rise to it and is 4" deep to the firewall. It would be interesting to see if a stock ford underhood bracket would clear on an A/C equipped car.
My car had a power booster under the hood and not under the dash. I figured all straight stick birds had an under the hood booster but there is a pedal setup on eBay with a stick setup with the Kelsey Hayes booster still there on the side of the brake pedal. My bird was produced in Dec 59 so I am not sure when Ford started using the underhood booster and with what transmission setup. I know they used the under dash setup for the automatic transmissions much later in the production because back in the late 70's I had a 60 automatic coupe with a K/H booster. I don't know if all A/C equipped cars had the K/H booster or not or when they changed over to the underhood setup.

I got my brake booster rod fixed today so now my brake pedal has the free play it needs. It is weird that the lack of a jamnut would let the rod rotate in the clevis and cause the free play to disappear but it did. I also cut another quarter inch off of the rod where the clevis screws on. It was almost hitting the firewall. Now it's about 1/2" away and looks very close to what the old booster clevis did. Oh well it's fixed now.

I would think that Old Irish Dave should have the master cyl. slugs to make your master cyl. fit the booster he sent you. If that is where you got them from.

It sounds like you are making progress and will have a setup that will work on A/C equipped birds soon.

Continued success, Gary
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  #229  
Old 03-20-2010, 11:33 AM
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Attached are pix of the current version of my booster bracket. The center of the booster is 5 inches about the brake pushrod and the face of the booster is 5 inches from the firewall. The sides haven't changed except they are narrower at the bottom so as not to contact the steering column. In the second pix you can see the hockey stick brake arm pushrod now connects to the pivot arms just above the midpoint. This gives a leverage ratio on the pivot arms close to 1.875, the same as the arms received from OID. The third pix shows the pivot arms with the hockey stick brake pushrod attached as well as a stub where the booster pushrod attaches. The unused hole in the pivot arms is where the brake pushrod would have connected without a hockey stick. The new connecting point is 1 1/2" higher on the pivot arms. There are a couple of things that still have to done to this assemble. First, I will weld a brace along the back (booster side) of the pivot arms to make them more rigid as well as weld a cross tee near the top of the pivot arms to keep the pivot arms centered in the bracket. The other thing I will do is weld a brace between the brackets sides below the firewall faceplate to keep the bracket from twisting.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Booster bracket side 2010 03 20 scaled.jpg (117.2 KB, 188 views)
File Type: jpg Booster bracket end 2010 03 20 scaled.jpg (84.7 KB, 189 views)
File Type: jpg Pivot arms 2010 03 20 scaled.jpg (387.9 KB, 191 views)
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  #230  
Old 04-03-2010, 05:49 AM
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My project is finally done. I tried two used Ford style proportioning valves and neither of them worked properly so I ended up buying a new GM style proportioning valve. It works fine. The brakes aren't as crisp as I would like them but they are feel much better than the old drum brakes. You may notice that the booster is upside down. I did this on purpose as I still have the K-H unit in place and functioining. I put a tee in the vacuum line from the manifold to connect to the new booster with the continuation going to the check valve for the K-H booster and vacuum reservoir.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GM PV.jpg (409.0 KB, 164 views)
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