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  #11  
Old 03-02-2018, 07:32 PM
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The 351W is my most favorite engine because Ford used them in cars, trucks and a host of other applications like marine and construction. It is a SBF that uses the exact same pistons as the 5.0 liter engine. They were offered both ways by Ford with either carburetors or EFI. New and used parts are offered everywhere at attractive prices. Serpentine belt systems and brackets for alternators, P/S and A/C are very available. Water pumps come in LH or RH, etc.

Carbureted engines will never be as efficient as fuel injection because they dribble fuel instead of atomizing the spray under 50-psi. This spray burns gas more completely which delivers more HP from the same amount of gas. Don't wait for the other shoe to drop because it is feedback, where oxygen sensors help regulate air-to-fuel ratios close to 14.7:1 regardless of elevation. This saves a lot of gas. Carbureted systems have no feedback so we error on the side of 'burning rich' to avoid detonation.

This is hard for many to grasp but in a carbureted engine we regulate fuel with the gas pedal. In an EFI engine we regulate the AIR. Fuel injectors are not tied to the gas pedal in any way.

In fairness to all engines, an FE engine can also be fuel injected using aftermarket systems. They pay for themselves. The restriction is, in my opinion, not all FE engines are supported by either Ford or aftermarket. For instance, Edelbrock makes aluminum heads for the 390/427 but not for 352. Edelbrock's large valves will scrape the smaller-diameter cylinder walls in a 352.

I still think either an injected 390 or a SBF engine is a great choice for the Squarebird. - Dave
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  #12  
Old 03-03-2018, 09:06 AM
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Thunderherd; are you considering using the FiTech "fuel command" unit? It is interesting, but in the installation instructions it still mentions that a return vent line is needed
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2018, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderherd View Post
Pageracing, and anybody else that has or going to do this swap. I've located a 351 W that I'm going to build and put in my '59 squarebird later this year. And I'm mainly going to do it hoping for better gas mileage. So, what can I expect gas mileage wise from a mild build, 351 W ? Aluminum heads, mild RV type cam for torque, boring if needed for clean up. My car is standard shift and want to keep it, so I'm also looking for a 5 speed. Not racing this car, just cruising and high way driving. My 390 is a good running engine, appears to be a rebuilt short block with original heads put back on (and no work done on them). But it seems to have a real aggressive cam in it, and I'm only getting about 12 mpg. And I don't see getting much more mileage even changing cam and heads. And about the 351, I've gotten opinions from probably not any better mileage, to probably 18 mpg. One guy even suggested mid 20's if it the 351 had fuel injection. And I'm thinking of using the FiTech fuel injection for it. Please give me some feedback here guys. Thanks.
Just for your info: Our 66 with stock 390 and Cruisomatic ( but with fully rebuilt carb and new vacuum can on the sissy) got up to 18mpg with a full trunk and four people on board when Mr & Mrs Yellowbird were over here last year.
When the mileage drops to 16mpg I start to wonder what is going on.
But then we have Imperial gallons (at about US$7 each!)
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  #14  
Old 03-04-2018, 06:31 PM
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Dave, thanks a million. Your advice on here is always appreciated. Also thanks for all the info on putting in a rack and pinion steering. Will be doing this in the near future also. Trying to decide whether to do it now or after I put the 351 in.
Dakota Boy - yes, looking at installing the FiTech. Haven't researched throughly yet, but one local guy around here installed one on his hot rod, took 2 four barrels off a 383 stroker and installed the FiTech and says he went from 10 mpg gas to 18. Another guy, the local DJ for a lot of car shows around here is putting one on his 58 383 stroker Corvette. I'm watching him to see how his turns out.
Scumdog - thanks for that info. By my figuring your 18 mpg imperial translates to about 15 mpg American. Not to bad, but I would like more. And I'm thinking a cam change and head work might get close. Those figures you quote really give me something to think about. Decisions, decisions.
Thanks again every body.
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  #15  
Old 03-04-2018, 10:16 PM
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I had a restorer buddy who put a SBF in his '58 Fairlane. I was interested at the time because I was kicking around the idea of retrofitting my 351W to the '59 Galaxie, so I took some pictures of his work...

He used one inch spacers under his motor mounts to raise the engine.









My point is, after seeing these clearances, do your R&P while your engine is out. It's much easier to access the steering column and your steering couplings. There is plenty of room for headers but make sure you use 351W headers, NOT 5.0 because the 351's deck height is two inches higher (and so are the heads). Ford commonly used 351W headers on Mustang Cobra engines in the mid 1990s. - Dave
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  #16  
Old 03-05-2018, 01:22 PM
pbf777 pbf777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
The 351W .................... It is a SBF that uses the exact same pistons as the 5.0 liter engine.

This is hard for many to grasp but in a carbureted engine we regulate fuel with the gas pedal. In an EFI engine we regulate the AIR. Fuel injectors are not tied to the gas pedal in any way.

In fairness to all engines, an FE engine can also be fuel injected using aftermarket systems. - Dave

As far as 351W using pistons from the 5.0 or other 289 or 302 cu.in. engines, or visa-versa, I wouldn't try this at home if I were you! One might want to review the piston compression height values first! Perhaps, if one qualifies a particular non-stock connecting rod length or crankshaft stroke combination, well........ maybe.

It is, hard for many to grasp, but in a carbureted application, with the exception of the accelerator pump system within the carburetor, providing an intermittent fueling value upon linkage movement, one is only directly controlling an air valve, not fuel. And, that it is only the air motion which "draws" or "siphons" the fuel into the induction volume.

But, I totally agree, that the FE engine can be as fuel efficient as other pushrod engines, both as carbureted or as converted to E.F.I.

Scott.
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Boy View Post
Thunderherd; are you considering using the FiTech "fuel command" unit? It is interesting, but in the installation instructions it still mentions that a return vent line is needed
I would recommend an "in-tank" fuel pump installation, with the appropriate "return-style" fuel regulator and return line, eliminating the need for the "Fuel Command" unit.

Scott.
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2018, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbf777 View Post
As far as 351W using pistons from the 5.0 or other 289 or 302 cu.in. engines, or visa-versa, I wouldn't try this at home if I were you!..
I have overhauled SBF engines so I come from experience and I'm here to tell you that stock pistons are identical for 5.0-liter, 289, 302 and 351W. They all have ‎4.000" cylinder bores.

Yes, they come in different compression ratios because both engines were used in cars and trucks. Otherwise, they share exact same part numbers and the same ring diameters.

Many parts between both 5.0 and 351W engines are shared; heads, water pumps, oil pans, rocker covers, timing chain sets, etc. - Dave
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  #19  
Old 03-06-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
I have overhauled SBF engines so I come from experience and I'm here to tell you that stock pistons are identical for 5.0-liter, 289, 302 and 351W. They all have ‎4.000" cylinder bores.

Yes, they come in different compression ratios because both engines were used in cars and trucks. Otherwise, they share exact same part numbers and the same ring diameters. - Dave
I understand that you possess an excellent sum of experience, but in this case, you might want to research this subject just a tad bit more.

And, to aid in your research, please allow me to point out that the term was, the pistons' "compression height", not "compression ratio"!

Note that in fact, very little in the way of O.E.M. components interchange. A quick-list of similarities are limited to: yes - some piston rings as the 4.00" bore is shared (also with the S.B.C.! & others) - but there are several different dimensional ring sets depending on piston applications, and even perhaps the gudgeon pin as both are of .912" diameter - but not the piston, bellhousing bolt pattern, engine mount pattern, front timing cover pattern & water pump - but different covers & pumps for different models & years & rotational direction, intake bolt patterns & fasteners (well, there is the 16 bolt vs 12 bolt, but often the additional four bolts on the earlier 351Ws gets ignored) - but different left to right separation so not intake manifolds, thermostat & housing - different units depending on model & year, after-market camshafts (different firing order on earlier 289/302s), timing chain sets (except early units w/ "C" spacer), thrust plates, fasteners & lifters do interchange, head bolt pattern - but 1/2" vs. 7/16" so after-market cylinder heads as they are machined to fit either retaining bolt size - so therefor rocker arms, valve covers and retaining fasteners, oil pump & pan retaining fasteners - but not pump or oil pan, crankshaft/flywheel bolt pattern - be aware of different applications & imbalance values of flywheels (5.0 vs others), crankshaft snout dimension therefore dampers - but different dimensions & bolt patterns based on model & year (again beware of imbalance values), and damper retaining bolt & washer does interchange, core/freeze/welsh & gallery plugs interchange, as do oil filter or cooler adapters & oil filters, and perhaps some accessory drive pulleys of the many created..........

Well, I forgot something I'm sure!

But although the 351W is similar to the other S.B.F. 90 engines, the differences are obviously greater than these interchangeables listed.

Scott.

Last edited by pbf777 : 03-06-2018 at 08:31 PM.
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