This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:04 AM
Infinite Monkeys Infinite Monkeys is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 24 2017
Posts: 80
Infinite Monkeys is on a distinguished road
Default My dual diaphragm booster and dual master cylinder install

Here's my brake booster and dual piston MC install.
I used this from Summit:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-2123nb-1

I ran all new Nickel/copper alloy hard line, front and back. Highly recommended, it bends and flairs very easily and will never rust.
I reused the old distribution block for the front and bought another one for the back. I put in a new pressure switch in the back line distribution block for the brake lights.

Mounting the combo could be a lot cleaner if you take the time to make brackets that look better. I got this idea from a picture I found on the net. They had used two pieces of square tubing to space the booster out, this does look cleaner. I used 4 short pieces to make it a little easier. Spacing out the booster is necessary because the booster push rod and the tube nut length is too long.

I cut the old push rod and welded it to a tube nut that fits on the new master cylinder and cut the old brackets off the old booster and mounted the new booster on them. Tube nut thread size is 3/8 X 24 for this application.

The 8" booster clears the shifter arm by about an inch. Everything else is factory.

Total cost was about $200.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC05017 (500x375).jpg (143.5 KB, 113 views)

Last edited by Infinite Monkeys : 08-28-2017 at 01:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:13 AM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is online now
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,835
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default My dual diaphragm booster & dual master cylinder install

Hi Iffy! I see you figured out pic posting! Congratulations! What I do not see is a combination valve installed in your dual MC/Dual Booster system. It has always been my understanding that you need one in that installation. In fact, if you put one in and do the wiring off it, you can keep that Gen light working.. But that might only apply if you also have front disc brakes. Do you? I also see that either the original color of your Tbird was not Raven Black but Red. Or sometime in the past, had been painted red... Here are a couple of pix showing the combination valve, and my installation with front disc brakes. That Chrome set up only cost me $25 more over the normal version! My air cleaner, valve covers, VR, oil cap, are all chromed...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BrakeLineSetupOnComboValve.jpg (46.8 KB, 111 views)
File Type: jpg My59DualMC-8inchPowerBoosterSetup2.jpg (80.6 KB, 112 views)
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

Last edited by YellowRose : 08-28-2017 at 12:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:24 AM
Infinite Monkeys Infinite Monkeys is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 24 2017
Posts: 80
Infinite Monkeys is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post
Hi Iffy! I see you figured out pic posting! Congratulations! What I do not see is a combination valve installed in your dual MC/Dual Booster system. It has always been my understanding that you need one in that installation. In fact, if you put one in and do the wiring off it, you can keep that Gen light working.. I am sure Dave or John will probably comment on this also. I also see that either the original color of your Tbird was not Raven Black but Red. Or sometime in the past, had been painted red...
Hi Ray,
You are correct, I do not have a combination valve, it wasn't necessary for a drum/drum setup. My gen light is still functional.
I had to put in a combination valve for a hydro-boost system I did for my '71 Bronco, but that is a disk/drum. Disks need a residual valve that wasn't in the MC, plus it allows you to adjust bias between front and back.

I'm not sure what that color is, but I like it. Kind of an orange?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:35 AM
Infinite Monkeys Infinite Monkeys is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 24 2017
Posts: 80
Infinite Monkeys is on a distinguished road
Default

Sorry,
I got combination valve and proportioning valve mixed up. The one I used is a combination of both. I think they are necessary if you have disk brakes or a disk/drum combo.
My brakes work without the valve.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:36 AM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is online now
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,835
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default My dual diaphragm booster and dual master cylinder install

If that was the original OEM red color, it would have been Monte Carlo Red on a 1960 Tbird... Unless someone painted it another color from another year. I see your set up is a drum/drum and that you do have your Gen light still working, which is good.
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-05-2017, 10:53 PM
Buckaroo's Avatar
Buckaroo Buckaroo is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Jul 24 2013
Posts: 156
Buckaroo is on a distinguished road
Default

Could a person use this to replace the under dash unit on a 58?
__________________
Dena & Dennis Gorder
1958 Coupe
Registry # 3422
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-05-2017, 11:32 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is online now
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,088
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Monkeys View Post
...My brakes work without the valve.
Herein lies a big problem.

You have a modern M/C with two pistons on a common shaft.

IF both front and rear systems require exactly the same amount of brake fluid, your brakes will seemingly work just fine. But, what happens when one system (usually the front) wears down more than the other system? The one worn down more will require more fluid and the brakes will only advance as far as the system that stops first.

I hope you understand, as long as all your brake shoes are always adjusted to the drums your system will seem to work ok.

A combination proportioning valve COMBINES both systems by a common piston between them. The fluids never mix but mechanically, they are tied together. If one system's shoes hit the drums first, the piston moves toward the side that has lower pressure. This equalizes both system pressures while the flow is at liberty to be different. If the disparity becomes excessive, the valve turns on a switch, which indicates a brake problem.

The combination proportioning valve for drum/drum (or disk/disk) is the same valve as disk/drum except the pressure reducing portion is gutted.

If you use self-adjusters on your brakes there is no reason for a residual valve. I personally don't like residual valves because they can cause the wheel cylinder pistons to extend so much, they pop out of their bores. This was common on Tempo cars.

I suggest you invest in a combination proportioning valve because believe me, you need it. That's why ALL cars come from the factory with one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Could a person use this to replace the under dash unit on a 58?
Yes, but you need a firewall bracket that extends the new booster up five inches and out (from the firewall) five inches. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-05-2017, 11:49 PM
Infinite Monkeys Infinite Monkeys is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 24 2017
Posts: 80
Infinite Monkeys is on a distinguished road
Default

Dave,

Thanks for that extremely informative post. I am looking for the right valve right now and will plumb it in before I drive the car again.

Not taking any chances with the braking system.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-06-2017, 05:42 AM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is online now
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,088
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

I suggest this PV4 valve: CLICK HERE Call their number to make sure this valve is also used for drum/drum applications.

I like it because the mounting holes are part of the casting. 1/4"-20 bolts fit. Most of us mount the valve on the fender apron, then plumb to it. The M/C brackets use space under the M/C, making it harder to change spark plugs. If you mount to the fender apron, the valve is out of the way but still very accessible.

Here's an internal view...
Attached Images
File Type: png ComboGMa.png (147.9 KB, 97 views)
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-12-2017, 04:29 PM
sidewalkman's Avatar
sidewalkman sidewalkman is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Sep 14 2015
Posts: 296
sidewalkman is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
I suggest this PV4 valve: CLICK HERE Call their number to make sure this valve is also used for drum/drum applications.

I like it because the mounting holes are part of the casting. 1/4"-20 bolts fit. Most of us mount the valve on the fender apron, then plumb to it. The M/C brackets use space under the M/C, making it harder to change spark plugs. If you mount to the fender apron, the valve is out of the way but still very accessible.

Here's an internal view...
So can someone with Drum/Drum use disk / disk?
__________________
Scott
South Delta, BC, Canada
1960 White T-Bird, PS, PB that's it
Red Leather Interior!
www.squarebirds.org/users/sidewalkman
Thunderbird Registry #61266
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...ibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:00 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.