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  #21  
Old 08-16-2017, 06:36 PM
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I just got the axle back from the welder and tomorrow I will be off, so will have some time to play around. I don´t know if its normal, but the upper clapper, which is fixed to the axle with the large U-bolts, is also welded to the axle.
I will see how the whole thing will behave without the clapper bolts installed.
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  #22  
Old 08-16-2017, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frango100 View Post
... I don´t know if its normal, but the upper clapper, which is fixed to the axle with the large U-bolts, is also welded to the axle...
Welded or not, makes no difference as long as the 'U' bolts are tight.

Remove the clapper bolt AND 5537 & 5540, sleeves, nuts, etc., from each side. - Dave
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frango100
I don´t think that it will work well without the vertical clapper bolt installed. The axle is hinged to the lower control arm, so when you accelerate, the differential will rotate backwards.................
The differential will rotate forward during braking,So there should be some medium in between the clapper ends to restrict the clapper movement, but still to give it some room to move during suspension movement.
CORRECT!

Also, I think Ford's initial intention may have been to utilize an air suspension system, which was canceled late in the game; so '58's received the control arms, etc., but with coil springs.

Later (by '59 production), with review, without the air suspension system, the expense of the control arms vs. a simpler and cheaper leaf system could not be justified.

Was this system (link-bar) in 1958-59 truly a "warranty problems and complaints were overwhelming" scenario for Ford?

Scott.
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  #24  
Old 08-17-2017, 01:42 PM
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I just put the axle in for a test and already found that the lower stops where the U-bolts front side threads. Cut the bolts shorter and now the axle will swing down further. Since i don´t have the original rear shocks installed, the down movement is now stopped by the forward side of the upper clapper brackets against the lower clapper. So i will need to get the right shocks.
Moving the whole thing up, showed that the bracket for the panhard bar on the right clapper, is hitting the right exhaust pipe, limiting its movement.
The left side can be put up until the bumper stop. I measured the distance between the clappers in full down and in full up, and its showing an amazingly 3" of difference between both positions.
So indeed, fixing the clappers would induce a huge amount of stress in the arms and bushings and probably causing something to break. But i wonder if the clapper can be left open.
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  #25  
Old 08-17-2017, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frango100 View Post
...So indeed, fixing the clappers would induce a huge amount of stress in the arms and bushings and probably causing something to break. But i wonder if the clapper can be left open.
Not only can the clapper be left open but this is the only setup that HAS one. The important point is, you are discovering how the mechanics of this setup works and where the problem areas are. That is a good thing.

I have gone through the operation as best I can, including the argument for running without the guts inside the clappers. Bottom Line: Each of the four pivot points on each side must have unrestricted freedom of motion.

Consider this... your front 'A' arms are different lengths, just like the rear suspension arms. This causes the front axles to 'roll' as well, as they travel through their range of motion. (No clappers in front, either.) So, this rolling motion in the parallelogram is perfectly ok in the front AND rear suspensions.

Whether suspension is accomplished using a spring or an air bag makes no difference. The ride may be different but the function is the same. We have many LONG threads pertaining to the 1958 Squarebird's rear suspension but hardly any pertaining to the leaf spring setup. The '58 setup was wildly expensive to produce, including the dies to make over a dozen unique brackets for LH & RH, upper and lower arms and all the hardware (bolts, nuts, washers, urethane components, etc.), all for only one model year. It's easy to realize how leaf springs are far cheaper to manufacture, assemble and they don't need service parts like urethane pucks.

I hope this helps and I'm open to comments. An open forum like this encourages ideas and discussion from around the world. There are 'mistakes' in the '58 Squarebird that were rectified in subsequent years. This is one. Another, is using two front brake hoses on each front brake. I will get flack from this but it is my belief that 'restoring to original mistakes' is not a move in the right direction. That is why Ford made these product changes in the '59 & '60 model years. If we're playing the 'blame game', I put it squarely on Ford engineers who approved the drawings to build the product and tooling. - Dave
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  #26  
Old 08-17-2017, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
Not only can the clapper be left open but this is the only setup that HAS one. The important point is, you are discovering how the mechanics of this setup works and where the problem areas are. That is a good thing.

I have gone through the operation as best I can, including the argument for running without the guts inside the clappers. Bottom Line: Each of the four pivot points on each side must have unrestricted freedom of motion.

Consider this... your front 'A' arms are different lengths, just like the rear suspension arms. This causes the front axles to 'roll' as well, as they travel through their range of motion. (No clappers in front, either.) So, this rolling motion in the parallelogram is perfectly ok in the front AND rear suspensions.

Whether suspension is accomplished using a spring or an air bag makes no difference. The ride may be different but the function is the same. We have many LONG threads pertaining to the 1958 Squarebird's rear suspension but hardly any pertaining to the leaf spring setup. The '58 setup was wildly expensive to produce, including the dies to make over a dozen unique brackets for LH & RH, upper and lower arms and all the hardware (bolts, nuts, washers, urethane components, etc.), all for only one model year. It's easy to realize how leaf springs are far cheaper to manufacture, assemble and they don't need service parts like urethane pucks.

I hope this helps and I'm open to comments. An open forum like this encourages ideas and discussion from around the world. There are 'mistakes' in the '58 Squarebird that were rectified in subsequent years. This is one. Another, is using two front brake hoses on each front brake. I will get flack from this but it is my belief that 'restoring to original mistakes' is not a move in the right direction. That is why Ford made these product changes in the '59 & '60 model years. If we're playing the 'blame game', I put it squarely on Ford engineers who approved the drawings to build the product and tooling. - Dave
Dave: If not mistaking, did the '58 Lincoln not also have the rear spring suspension like the Bird . ( They came down the same assembly line in the new Wixom plant ) When I restored my '58, I put everything back with new bushings the way it came new. Also, no urethane pucks but rubber . Also, like you mention, I have two brake hoses in the front on each side , like original, and also have the shocks on the outside like original . ( Due to the possibility of originally having air bags in there .) Have seen some people put in double shocks , one inside the coil and one outside .

For your info, if any interest, I do have a " Service letter ", product information, dated June 20., 1958 that pertains to " rear Suspension Noise " . It covers problems and correction instructions . Also has a proper torque chart for suspension nuts and bolts .

ps. Enjoy your informative comments and , thanks for all you do.
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  #27  
Old 08-18-2017, 08:11 AM
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I don't know about the Lincolns (mainly because I don't know anyone who owns one). It is possible the T-bird and Lincoln shared the same suspension. If true, Edsel cars might share the same as well. I know the air bag suspension program also included the Edsel. When the program was dropped, it spanned many models that were all dropped at the same time.

Front air bag suspension would have replaced the front springs, leaving no space for shock absorbers. That is the only reason for the outer shock absorbers. It's beyond me, why two brake line hoses were used. Why not one long hose? Subsequent years brought the hard line closer to the brake cylinder which required one short hose.

Many, many '58 owners complained about their rear suspension. I would love to see your service bulletin and torque specification page. Can you e-mail it to me? Here's my address:
simplyconnected@aol.com

Thanks for the kudos but it's guys like YOU, who contribute and share real facts with our international family. Thanks in advance, Martin.
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  #28  
Old 08-18-2017, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUR5T8BIRD View Post
Dave: If not mistaking, did the '58 Lincoln not also have the rear spring suspension like the Bird . ( They came down the same assembly line in the new Wixom plant ) When I restored my '58, I put everything back with new bushings the way it came new. Also, no urethane pucks but rubber . Also, like you mention, I have two brake hoses in the front on each side , like original, and also have the shocks on the outside like original . ( Due to the possibility of originally having air bags in there .) Have seen some people put in double shocks , one inside the coil and one outside .

For your info, if any interest, I do have a " Service letter ", product information, dated June 20., 1958 that pertains to " rear Suspension Noise " . It covers problems and correction instructions . Also has a proper torque chart for suspension nuts and bolts .

ps. Enjoy your informative comments and , thanks for all you do.
Hi Martin, how is your rear suspension working after replacing all bushings? Do you remember if the upper clappers, which are fixed to the axle with the U-bolts,
are also welded to the axle? On mine at least they are, making it impossible to change the angle of the differential yoke towards the transmission slip yoke.
Did you ever see how much the clappers open up and close down depending on the suspension travel? Even with rubber in between, there still will be a lot of stress put on the suspension arms and bushings. Its probably not for nothing that such a large bolt is used in the clapper connection. I´m interrested in the bulletin for the torque values, could you attach it here?
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2017, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
I don't know about the Lincolns (mainly because I don't know anyone who owns one). It is possible the T-bird and Lincoln shared the same suspension. If true, Edsel cars might share the same as well. I know the air bag suspension program also included the Edsel. When the program was dropped, it spanned many models that were all dropped at the same time.

Front air bag suspension would have replaced the front springs, leaving no space for shock absorbers. That is the only reason for the outer shock absorbers. It's beyond me, why two brake line hoses were used. Why not one long hose? Subsequent years brought the hard line closer to the brake cylinder which required one short hose.

Many, many '58 owners complained about their rear suspension. I would love to see your service bulletin and torque specification page. Can you e-mail it to me? Here's my address:
simplyconnected@aol.com

Thanks for the kudos but it's guys like YOU, who contribute and share real facts with our international family. Thanks in advance, Martin.
Will have the ' service bulletin ' scanned and make a pdf of same . Make take a few days and then pass it on .
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  #30  
Old 08-18-2017, 10:04 AM
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Default 58 rear upper control arms

Thanks, Martin! I certainly agree with what Dave said. Much of the information in the Technical Resource Library was obtained because of our great membership putting together Tech Tips on how they fixed certain problems with their Tbirds. We were able to put them in the TRL for posterity. Hopefully, Dave will be able to take the information you provide to him and do the same, or I will. We have a good number of '58 owners on here and I notice that more and more keep finding us! Since the front and rear end of that year of Squarebird is so different from the '59 & '60 we have had a lot of owners run into problems with them after some 50+ years of use. My reading indicates that it certainly was the intention of airbagging the '58 and the other Ford products of that year. But it was quickly determined there were problems with that, or that the bean counters stepped in and quashed that idea. It did not take Ford long to dump the front and rear end setup (in particular) of the '58's and go to leaf springs on their '59 product line.
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