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  #11  
Old 07-19-2017, 06:39 PM
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Default Starter Drive, lever type starter/153 tooth flywheel

Hi Del, when I called John, I also had to leave a voice message to him. He called me back around this time or a bit later that day. I had caught him out, apparently. We had a good conversation. Hopefully, you will hear back from him soon.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2017, 08:51 PM
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Elaine and John Vermeersch are good friends of mine. John also runs the Galaxie Club of Michigan. (I have one.) John is also very alive on the FE Forum.

This part number (C5A-11350-TP) is concocted, evidenced by the 'Total Performance' suffix which is John's company. The gear is not a Ford part but something that was adapted from original parts and are now selling for $24.95.

The article serves two purposes:
  • It announces the new part and it's intended use,
  • It shows how a 'store-bought' starter motor must be adapted using the new gear.

Since both the OEM and John's new Bendix gears are both 9-tooth, I'm guessing he simply cut one down and cleaned up the teeth. I will call John's cell phone tomorrow and get more particulars. What specific questions would you like answered?

The Bulldozer starter LOOKS the same as FE motors but the terminal post is moved because the exhaust manifold hits it. For this reason, I doubt the 'new' starter motor will fit a MEL 430. This starter has a big solenoid sticking out the side. Look at the pictures in John's article where both motors are sitting side-by-side and determine if the solenoid would interfere with your 430. - Dave
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2017, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
The Bulldozer starter LOOKS the same as FE motors but the terminal post is moved because the exhaust manifold hits it. For this reason, I doubt the 'new' starter motor will fit a MEL 430. This starter has a big solenoid sticking out the side. Look at the pictures in John's article where both motors are sitting side-by-side and determine if the solenoid would interfere with your 430. - Dave
According to the Lincoln Parts book and also what is listed on Rock Auto, Lincoln 430's began using the the later starter in 1961 up to 1965. The part number is the same as what is used on the FE's.

John
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:19 PM
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According to the Lincoln Parts book and also what is listed on Rock Auto, Lincoln 430's began using the the later starter in 1961 up to 1965. The part number is the same as what is used on the FE's.

John
Ok, but I thought we were talking about a Squarebird retrofit. If the 1961 starter fits a 430 Squarebird, why don't the books say so? I would LOVE for this information to be true for the SB but test the waters before jumping in. - Dave
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:37 PM
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Default Starter Drive, lever type starter/153 tooth flywheel

It is a small world! Who wudda thunk that Dave would be good friends with John! I am glad you are. It is just as Dave said, is my understanding. That John cut one down, and cleaned up the teeth and now you have a starter that is what we need to replace that OEM one... I love the idea of being able to put a spare in the glove box or in the trunk, for emergencies when you need it. Or replace that OEM one all together. I am sure Dave will have more particulars after he talks with John...
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  #16  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:57 PM
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Ok, but I thought we were talking about a Squarebird retrofit. If the 1961 starter fits a 430 Squarebird, why don't the books say so? I would LOVE for this information to be true for the SB but test the waters before jumping in. - Dave
Lincoln began using a 164 tooth flexplate and the later style starter in 1961 according to what I can find. Since all Squarebirds both 352 and 430 have the 153 tooth flexplate it certainly won't work without using TP's gear retrofit.

John
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  #17  
Old 07-19-2017, 11:58 PM
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It is a small world! Who wudda thunk that Dave would be good friends with John!...
Ray, don't be surprised. I'm in Detroit, spent my entire career at Ford Motor Co., and frequently rubbed elbows with many great restorers and hot rodders of all brands but mostly Ford guys. John Vermeersch and Ford are long-time business associates. This is convenient for both Ford, and John because when concepts lead to prototypes, the 'fit' is perfect. John has been in business for many decades, actively racing his cars at local and international dragways. He is also widely respected in Canada. Some of our Galaxie members live in Canada and come to John's monthly meetings. John's daughter runs the Total Performance website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
Lincoln began using a 164 tooth flexplate and the later style starter in 1961 according to what I can find. Since all Squarebirds both 352 and 430 have the 153 tooth flexplate it certainly won't work without using TP's gear retrofit.

John
John, I think the 'fit' issue revolves around the exhaust manifolds used. Where the new starters may fit a Lincoln, in the same years they will not fit a Squarebird. For instance, in 1960 neither Lincoln Continental's nor Squarebird starters were interchangeable (for the same 430 engine). It's all in the castings that fit the body. That's why we have such a hard time finding headers for a SB.

So to the point, yes in 1961 Lincoln used 164-tooth flex plates and starters are readily available. The problem we are addressing is whether a 430 MEL Squarebird flex plate can use Vermeersch's Bendix gear. I seriously doubt the new style starter will fit a SB regardless of Bendix gear. The newer starters are listed for a 1958 Continental but not a SB. - Dave
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2017, 12:15 AM
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So to the point, yes in 1961 Lincoln used 164-tooth flex plates and starters are readily available. The problem we are addressing is whether a 430 MEL Squarebird flex plate can use Vermeersch's Bendix gear. I seriously doubt the new style starter will fit a SB regardless of Bendix gear. The newer starters are listed for a 1958 Continental but not a SB. - Dave
I know the later style starter will fit a Squarebird with a 352. I've seen one that had the later flexplate and starter installed. Whether it will fit a 430 is another matter. I'll check the VTCI forum. Maybe someone over there has done it.

John
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:04 AM
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I spoke with John Vermeersch just now. He says his gear has actually been out for SIX YEARS! The magazine picked it up as a story but it all started out with disaster in Colorado, when John was stranded and couldn't get a starter motor to get him back to Detroit.

Anyway, John doesn't think this short-nosed starter (and gear) will work on a Squarebird 430. He has not had an occasion to actually try it but that was his opinion.

His gear is made from two different pieces (not available in stores) in Wisconsin. The price is $25. - Dave
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  #20  
Old 07-20-2017, 02:46 PM
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But it has been used successfully on the 352?
Nyles
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