This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 06-07-2017, 12:17 PM
StealthSRT10's Avatar
StealthSRT10 StealthSRT10 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 7 2017
Posts: 12
StealthSRT10 is on a distinguished road
Default engine swap question

Hello everyone.

I will try to be brief.
I have a 1959 Thunderbird with the original 4v FE 352.

I have taken the engine apart and was going to rebuild.
Currently looking like it will be about $2200 to do start to finish. Not building a monster mostly stock.

I have found a 1965 f-100 truck with the 2V 352 running for $600.

I know it has alot less horsepower but can i swap my intake manifold and carb on it as is? If so its a great price help.

I still have to do some wiring and the brakes on the car but would like to have a running engine sooner than later.

Also i dont know if the motor mounts are the same location.

Any light yall could shed would be amazingly helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-07-2017, 12:51 PM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is offline
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,835
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default engine swap question

I just talked briefly with Dave on the phone. He said that you would be better off finding a 390 engine from a mid 70's F-100 instead of the '65 F-100 352. 390 engines are a lot more common. The motor mounts will match up, he said, for that '65 F-100 352, but it would be a good idea to get Edelbrock aluminum heads, and manifolds and put on them a 390 and cut some weight. Hopefully, he or John will be along and elaborate more on this.
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

Last edited by YellowRose : 06-07-2017 at 02:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-07-2017, 12:56 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,759
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

You should not have any issues. Your two bolt motor mount should work just fine. Your stock 4V intake will also fit. You will have to reuse your old exhaust manifolds. Certainly a later 390 will be better, especially one that has hardened valve seats.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-07-2017, 01:22 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,086
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

I look at it this way... Ford used many more 390 engines in just about everything (including Thunderbirds) than they did 352 engines. From the outside, they are identical.

Either engine from fifty or so years ago will need an overhaul. Suppliers offer many more parts for the 390 than the 352 and at cheaper prices because of supply and demand.

I use Edelbrock aluminum heads for a host of reasons. They are not available for the 352 but they fit a 390 and above (427). This is a move in the right direction and one that will operate and last like a modern engine because Edelbrock uses all the right components for pump fuel and their heads bolt right on.

You can rebuild a 352 but your choices are slim and prices are higher. Check out true roller timing sets and cam choices for both engines.

I also use Edelbrock's aluminum intake manifold with their heads. Aluminum is MUCH lighter and it conducts heat much faster than cast iron. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-07-2017, 01:27 PM
DKheld's Avatar
DKheld DKheld is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Aug 27 2008
Posts: 1,434
DKheld is on a distinguished road
Default

Sounds very close to what I did.

Plan was to rebuild original 352. Found a '64 352 (or possibly a 360) for around the same price as the one you found and it was already rebuilt - heads and all. Mine had the 4V intake which made things easier plus I wanted to use the PCV stuff.

Only problem I ran into was that the crank had a bushing inserted in the back for a manual transmission. Removed the bushing and it worked fine. I'd make sure that opening on the crank is the same.

I did buy a set of used manifolds to install on my new engine because I wanted to keep the originals on my OE engine - car was bought new by my Dad so if I ever win the lottery I'll rebuild it and re-install. Do not use gaskets on the manifolds. I did and wound up pulling the engine again just to re-do the manifolds. Have them shaved or surfaced to clean them and re-install with no gaskets as original. Mine have been fine since I did that. Leaked with the gaskets.

Moved my water pump, damper, motor mounts, genny bracket, fuel pump, etc. Which reminds me the pointer on the OE 352 for timing is on the front cover and was different on the new engine so had to figure out the timing marks.


OEM



OEM is out - but saved for later



The rebuilt engine I ran across on Craigslist.



Manual trans bushing in the rear of the crank.



Found the bushing after I had the old engine out and ready to install the new one - thought I was screwed as usual but the bushing pulled right out. I did use my OE flywheel as well.




Hard to see - trying to show the timing pointer differences. My OE damper wound up going bad a few months later and the replacement damper had the marks for both pointers so problem solved itself (with the help of a few $$$).



Painted the engine and ready to go back in - ugh - those valve covers have to go.
(couldn't use the OEM because they didn't have PCV and breather holes)



Chrome works - added some stickers from the '55-57 312 Tbird because I thought they looked cool.....



Good luck......
Hope it works as easy for you.
Eric
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:26 PM
StealthSRT10's Avatar
StealthSRT10 StealthSRT10 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 7 2017
Posts: 12
StealthSRT10 is on a distinguished road
Default

Guys thank you so very much for all the info and quick replies.

My idea is to be able to get a running engine installed so that i can move on to the other aspects of the car to get it road ready.

My plan would be to over time rebuild the origional engine. but as money is a factor i would rather take my time with it and build it how i really want it.

I have had a few conversations about just putting that money into the engine i have but i am of a one track mind and am determined to get it on the road.

I am not building a race car by any means but i have much more time than money.

The numbers i look at for rebuilding what i have are around:
Heads: $800
Block: $500 - 800
Rebuild kit: $ 600
Cam and tapping block: $500
Adjustable push rods: $200 as opposed to adjustable rockers which i see for $500 to $700.

And all that is around $2900 on a worst case scenario aside from something having a crack in it.

Let me know if im crazy. I know I am hasty.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:51 PM
Yadkin Yadkin is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 11 2012
Posts: 1,910
Yadkin is on a distinguished road
Default

Adjustable push rods?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-07-2017, 03:07 PM
StealthSRT10's Avatar
StealthSRT10 StealthSRT10 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 7 2017
Posts: 12
StealthSRT10 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
Adjustable push rods?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...0-16/overview/

this is the link
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-07-2017, 03:25 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,086
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

You're not crazy but I think you're putting good money after bad. After spending all that money, what will you end up with?

Sometimes spending a bit more money will pay off in spades later on. For instance, $800 for heads? What does that include? Do you get hardened exhaust seats and stainless valves? How about bronze guides, Viton seals and new (correct-height) springs? Are all the mating surfaces milled true? After all that you still end up with cast iron. Here's the big question, how much are these newly machined heads worth if you need to sell them? I doubt you will fetch $300 for the pair. That's a $500 loss.

Used aluminum heads fetch a grand IF you can find them, because they are snatched up right away. That's about a $350 loss. But the benefits far outweigh any loss.

FE engines run hot. Aluminum trumps all that and it still allows (factory) high compression ratios without knock. Cast iron does not. 1970 engines were designed to run on leaded gas and oil with ZDDP (zinc and phosphorus). We have neither today.

Unless you run with solid lifters, there is no reason for an adjustable valve train. Pushrods should cost under $100 per set and your original rocker arms work perfectly fine if the shafts are not scored. With any rebuild, because of decking, lifter and gasket thickness differences, you will need to measure for correct pushrod length after the heads are mounted. (It's not hard, I use a FE roller cam with my OEM rockers and shafts.)


The solution, if you want your engine to last 250,000 miles, is to build using modern materials, like a modern engine, . I'm not talking about building a race engine. I'm talking about one that will perform well and last a very long time. You describe an engine that lasts 80,000 miles before the next build.

Yes, you can cut a lot of corners but is it worth it? Not to me. The simple reduction in cast iron weight (over 100-lbs) will pay for itself in fuel economy alone over the years. It will also allow easier starts and stops, easier cornering, less tire wear, etc.

Time is on your side so use it to your advantage. Buy name-brand parts when they are discounted. Build your engine right the first and only time. This will save you the most money over the longest run.

I hope this helps. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca

Last edited by simplyconnected : 06-07-2017 at 03:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-07-2017, 05:27 PM
Yadkin Yadkin is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 11 2012
Posts: 1,910
Yadkin is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthSRT10 View Post
Never seen them before.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:25 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.