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  #11  
Old 01-23-2017, 10:32 PM
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The pictures are after I installed a 77 Tbird spindle (thinking it was a Granada spindle) on the passenger side and removed ALL the upper alignment shims. The fellow that sold those spindles to me was less than honest.

I finally found a picture of what Granada spindles looked like and realized what I had were different and of course they couldn't be returned. I didn't know what the first ones were either just that I was told they would work.

The fellow that bought them from me at a car show told me they were 77 Tbird. Probably a series of years and cars but that's what I was told anyway.

The Granada spindles were set for 0 deg camber as a starting point but the car was very unstable on the interstate (believe that is the correct setting for the original Tbird alignment) - at any rate - we had to start somewhere.

The best setting for all driving conditions with my particular tires and Granada spindles definitely has some negative camber. These tires were 10+ years old and about 20K miles. You can see the wear to the right side which is the inside (bubble is a broken belt so I replaced all the tires). Wish we were closer and I'd bring mine by for you to check on your alignment machine - very nice.



The Coker Classics in the EXACT same size as my Diamond Back Radials don't handle as well. Lots of wiggling around on grooved interstate roads where as the Diamond Backs were so nice I could drive with one had on the wheel. It's probably all tread design - even though they were very similar. The Diamond Backs were Dayton brand tires, I would only buy another set of Coker Classics as a last resort (as in they were the only thing left on the entire planet).




Don't have a really good pic from the front straight on - but the negative camber is not enough to be noticed.







Eric
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2017, 09:02 AM
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OK, thanks. I would probably start with at least some
negative camber. The only thing I set straight up zero are
wide (12.5 or wider) offroad truck tires, as they
are too expensive to get any wear from camber.

Don't think I would ever go for Coker or similar, just
insane money that I can use elsewhere on this project.
I got Hankook 1" whitewalls for under $300 that go down
the road nice and smooth (and that was my top criteria).
These cars handle so bad stock, not sure any tire is going
to matter that much.

Will be fun to get alignment heads on the rear I suspect.
The heads normally mount on edge of rims like this



and need to be rotated 360 to calibrate, not even sure
that is going to work with the skirts removed.

I also got a set of tire clamp adapters for nice alum rims that
won't mess up edge of rim. They mount like this.



with bumpers on rim edge instead of the clamps that
dig into inside edge of rims. Doubt those would fit
between rear 1/4 and tire when you calibrate head.

Heck, I had to jack up body and let axle droop just
to get tire/rim off, but my rear springs may be droopy.
They look in good shape, but are probably original.





Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post
The best setting for all driving conditions with my particular tires and Granada spindles definitely has some negative camber.

The Coker Classics

Don't have a really good pic from the front straight on - but the negative camber is not enough to be noticed.

Eric
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2017, 10:41 AM
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I had discussed getting these metal punches in another
thread, but finally got them in the mail. I ordered them
back in Nov.

Anyway, appears they are US made and seem much
better than some of the china junk steel quality
(which overall, china stuff does seem to be improving).
One pic shows color change from temper, I assume.

Had to punch each letter twice, but that was probably
due to my size and strength (or lackthereof ).
Last pic shows letter heads after punching with
no wear on letters themselves.

Not sure if lettering will be covered over by
powder coating, but at least I know which end
is which up until that point. Not sure if it
even matters on this part, especially since
they came out of a different car.





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  #14  
Old 01-30-2017, 12:03 AM
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So back to the brakes. I had asked about
booster size in this thread

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...05616#poststop

It seems lower shifter arm and valve cover
are the main culprits (with factory AC
coming in 3rd for many).

After reading 15 threads on disk brake
conversions, it seemed no one has solved
the issue of fitting a larger booster than
an 8" dual diaphr.

My first thought was redesign the shifter
arm, but even with that, the MC is almost
inline with the edge of valve cover (on 430
at least).

Buddy gave me this dual diaphr 9" booster,
so I was curious how it fit. It doesn't, unless
you move it over to the drivers side.

I started thinking why not. It could kill
2 (possibly 3) birds @ once. My idea is
why does the MC rod and booster rod
have to be in the same plane laterally.
(or athwartship for you Navy guys).

Couple pics of the booster where it easily
fits, could probably go to a 10" if desired.
Also, a real ugly sketch of my proposed
bracket assembly. Even with 9" booster,
it appeared I would only have to raise it
up about 2.5-3" since it is now offset
from shifter linkage.

So , aside from a totally custom
bracket/fulcrum, what am I missing??





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  #15  
Old 01-30-2017, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OX1 View Post



and need to be rotated 360 to calibrate, not even sure
that is going to work with the skirts removed.

.
Uh, the rear wheels don't need calibrate/aligned!
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  #16  
Old 01-30-2017, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
Uh, the rear wheels don't need calibrate/aligned!
True there are no adjustments on rear solid axles,
but it is rare that thrust angle is perfect, especially
on a 50+ year old car. So you need to know which
way the rears are pointed to align fronts. Back in
the day it was called a thrust alignment.

After doing enough alignments, you can adjust
front toe and in some cases crank in a bit more
caster to compensate for thrust angle.

"Thrust Angle The direction the rear wheels are
positioned in reference to the vehicle center line.Thrust
angle is the direction that the rear wheels are pointing
in relation to the center line of the vehicle If the thrust
line is to the right of the centerline, the angle is said to
be positive. If the thrust line is to the left of center,
the angle is negative."
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2017, 11:03 AM
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Offset bracket looks like a good idea for the larger booster.
(man that is a whopper of a booster) http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...219_201058.jpg
Hope everybody has their seat belts on when you step on the brakes

Only thing I could think of is that the bracket might tend to flex toward the engine when the brakes were applied???? I believe just adding a piece of flat metal from the back of the bracket where you have labeled "fire" as far out on the angle piece as possible and the same on the other side. From "wall" out to the angle. You could put them on top or bottom if there is room. Probably overkill.....

And - maybe you are thinking of much heavier gauge steel than I am.

I've even found the original 7 inch booster offers plenty of assist. Been using it for over 10 years now with no problems.



Even when the dang engine is on fire.


I used a similar proportioning valve on my system. Mine is a combo valve - balances perfectly.

Might want to check on a different master cyl. I bet that is the same one I am using if we were to cross-reference it. Pretty sure I bought the one designed for a Granada (since I was using Granada calipers) or the Lincoln Mark series cars (similar weight). Anyway the outlets are on the manifold/valve cover side so you need to make sharp bends to clear them plus your brake lines are hanging over the manifold absorbing the heat. Hasn't been a problem on mine but just something to think about. Believe the Mustang master cyl's has the outlets on the fender side.




I also put my proportioning valve down on the frame rather than hung under the master cyl because of the heat issue.
Of course I had planned a different configuration so the lines look like spaghetti but it worked and has been working so well I just never went back and cleaned it up . Also there is a threaded hole in the frame to put threaded stud or bolt for the prop valve - no drilling new holes.

(and that's a crappy cruise control bracket hanging off the accel linkage but another one of those things that works so why mess with it)



I stuck with the old fluid pressure brake light switch - installed it in the rear line and extended the wires down - works great. Lines look closer to the exhaust than they really are - about a foot away.



Nice set of punches - I use reverse punches for restoring the engine number plates on MG's. The are punched from the back so are raised letters on the plates. Thin aluminum plates though so doesn't have to be a very strong punch.

Eric

Last edited by DKheld : 01-30-2017 at 12:19 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-30-2017, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OX1 View Post
...After reading 15 threads on disk brake
conversions, it seemed no one has solved the issue of fitting a larger booster than an 8" dual diaphr...
There are many ways to skin this cat. We know of a few ways to add more boost than an 8" dual diaphragm but none of them are offered at a reasonable in COST.
"...at a reasonable cost" is of utmost importance, otherwise the system can be an electric or power steering pressure booster.

I'm for any system that works well and I'm excited to see your new bracket and booster mounted and working on your Squarebird. More boost is a good thing in my book as well.

The truth is, and this isn't an excuse, we rarely have panic stops so we rarely use the full capability of our boosters. That's where Dkheld is coming from. He is happy using a booster that was designed for drum brakes and says it works just fine on Granada calipers. Truth be told, my '59 Galaxie came with manual brakes (as did millions of full size cars of the day) and folks were good with that.

In my opinion, there is only one supplier who sells a decent bolt-on system that works in a Squarebird BUT his price is too high. Regardless, some of our members who don't fabricate are happy to buy it.

We can buy an 8" dual-diaphragm with a one inch bore M/C AND a combination proportioning valve for $200 but it doesn't come with a firewall bracket. That's the problem, of which there are two possible practical solutions but both involve some fabrication: Make your own bracket (we have the drawings and two examples in service right now) OR, if your 'bird came with a firewall bracket, simply make two extension tubes and re-use it.

So again, I'm excited to see your large booster in action. Take lots of clear pictures of the setup when you get it working. Yes, it needs to be working. We went through many revisions on our bracket just to use the dual-8". We found, the more offset built into the bracket the more 'flex' and spongy-feel in the brake pedal.

Yes, ratios are a concern when designing your bracket but that also depends on two additional factors; the bore size of the M/C and the amount of booster assist. There is such a thing as, too much assist if stopping cannot be smooth and controlled under normal driving conditions. Some factory Chryslers fall into this category, in my opinion. The brake pedal was touchy and difficult to control. I hope that's a different discussion.

I use the dual-8" on Granada and on S-10 calipers in my full size Fords. They will put you through the windshield much the same as the brake performance of any modern car. - Dave
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  #19  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post
Offset bracket looks like a good idea for the larger booster.
(man that is a whopper of a booster) http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...219_201058.jpg
Hope everybody has their seat belts on when you step on the brakes
Yeah, fits well in my 79 bronco though, which needs all
the help it can get with 800+ lbs of wheels/tires.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_D...R/DCP02845.JPG
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_D...-00-53_558.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post
Only thing I could think of is that the bracket might tend to flex toward the engine when the brakes were applied???? I believe just adding a piece of flat metal from the back of the bracket
Good point. I would probably make some supports like
they had on the 70's trucks and 78/79 broncos.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kyCPssOb4E...0/DSCN2644.JPG

Ultimately though, I would think bracket
flex would reduce with booster size increase.
(your leg pressure is less)

The booster is pulling against itself from the vac
and mounted to the MC. So I would think the
forces between only booster and MC don't
translate mostly to firewall/bracket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post
I've even found the original 7 inch booster offers plenty of assist. Been using it for over 10 years now with no problems.
I used a similar proportioning valve on my system. Mine is a combo valve - balances perfectly.

Might want to check on a different master cyl. I bet that is the same one I am using if we were to cross-reference it. Pretty sure I bought the one designed for a Granada (since I was using Granada calipers) or the Lincoln Mark series cars (similar weight). Anyway the outlets are on the manifold/valve cover side so you need to make sharp bends to clear them plus your brake lines are hanging over the manifold absorbing the heat. Hasn't been a problem on mine but just something to think about. Believe the Mustang master cyl's has the outlets on the fender side.
I definitely prefer over boosted and extremely short
pedal travel, if I can get it. If I didn't care about having
engine compartment look sort of authentic, hydroboost
would already be in the plans, if not installed already
with a modified sag pump.........

I have a 70 bronco, probably about 400 lbs heavier
than the bird. I used 2000ish mustang HB (and mustang
prop valve), 77 stock front disk and rear disk off a linc
Mark VII. 70's lincoln saginaw pump with pressure modded
to about 1500PSI. That thing is touchy, but I like it.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/70%20EB...E/DCP03975.JPG

As mentioned in my booster thread, I am leaning towards
a booster/master combo from a 2WD F350 with 460.
It is 9-3/8 dia booster, 1-1/16 master and MC outlets
are on drivers side. Booster rod is pretty short also. It's
not exactly period correct, but at least it's from the 70's
and is ford "looking".

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...1305&ppt=C0066

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post
I also put my proportioning valve down on the frame rather than hung under the master cyl because of the heat issue.
I stuck with the old fluid pressure brake light switch - installed it in the rear line and extended the wires down - works great. Lines look closer to the exhaust than they really are - about a foot away.Eric
I leaning towards the 80's fox body prop valve.
Relativley easy to get NOS Ford item from Ebay,
and not that pricey.

Depending upon what I do with brake pedal,
I may try to incorporate a switch on the brake
pedal. I had considered removing internal booster
linkage and welding upper pivot on brake pedal.
Not sure how weldable the brake pedal is, but
it appears to be a forging.

I may also end up putting heat shield under the MC
and/or prop valve. 430 manifolds are way outboard,
almost covering the nuts on studs that hold shims
for doing wheel alignment.

Definitely appreciate the thoughts and pics. Gets
the mind going for sure.............
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post

(and that's a crappy cruise control bracket hanging off the accel linkage but another one of those things that works so why mess with it)
I was wondering what that sink drain arrangement was down there. I take it you have aftermarket CC?
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