This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #31  
Old 03-18-2016, 04:54 PM
RustyNCa RustyNCa is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: May 31 2007
Posts: 1,303
RustyNCa is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
Ok, let's look at this another way... What do modern rear wheel drive with trailing arm suspension cars use?

A Mustang comes to mind. It simply has two upper control arms and two lower but longer control arms. No panhard bar. No clappers.

The only dampener is a shock absorber, one on each side, which serves as a 'bottom limit' when the axle hangs down.

Because the upper arms are shorter, they have a tighter radius (just like your front "A" arms) which causes the axle (or front spindle) to intentionally roll. Notice, your front "A" arms have no clappers or any pivot restrictions.

So, this is not a parallelogram but a trapezoid; a quadrilateral with two sides parallel. All pivot points must be free to move. Restricting motion on one pivot point will have a 'lever' affect on the opposite joint. That's why your mounts are tearing out.

In the illustrations, each pivot point is labeled with a letter for you to study.

With that, I'm done. Do what you want, it's your car. - Dave
Dave you bring up an interesting point about the Fox Body setup, because that was the first thing that popped into my head when you posted the diagram. I'm not sure the length is correct, but couldn't one replace the 58 lower arm with an arm like the Mustang runs? Run one with hiems up front and attached to the axle with the pivot. Pretty much just converting it to a four link?

What made me think of it is the Sebring MX kit car I have to build that runs that Mustang upper and lower control arm setup attached to a solid rear axle of ones choosing.

Cheers
RustyNCA
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-18-2016, 06:16 PM
chris58 chris58 is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 28 2014
Posts: 243
chris58 is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks guys, plenty of things to think about now.

Dave, true it is my car and basically I'm trying to take in as much information as possible to get to a point of total reliability and more so avoiding something breaking whilst doing 100kph on the hwy with kids in the car and having a disaster on my hands.
Unfortunately I am dealing with a seriously flawed system as you know and one of which I've never seen before so asking lots of questions is the only way to get my head around it.
Trying to build this car on a budget with zero local parts and resources is tough and I'm definitely no engineer.

I appreciate all of help you and everyone else has given me in the last 2 years without it this car would still be a pile of junk sitting in the corner of my garage.

Thanks Chris
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-19-2016, 04:07 AM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,164
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyNCa View Post
Dave you bring up an interesting point about the Fox Body setup, because that was the first thing that popped into my head when you posted the diagram. I'm not sure the length is correct, but couldn't one replace the 58 lower arm with an arm like the Mustang runs? Run one with hiems up front and attached to the axle with the pivot. Pretty much just converting it to a four link?

What made me think of it is the Sebring MX kit car I have to build that runs that Mustang upper and lower control arm setup attached to a solid rear axle of ones choosing.

Cheers
RustyNCA
The fox body uses the back seat crossmember for suspension support, spanning the rear subframe. The center arms are at an angle, like a 45 from the axle to the point of attachment. This eliminates the panhard bar for side loading. For even more insurance, the GT has quad shocks that are mounted horizontally just behind the top of the rear wheels.

To retrofit that to a SB, you would need serious back seat reconstruction because it's wide and tall and heavy metal.

For over 16 years, I beat on my 8.8" 4.30:1 positraction rear end and it never balked. Both 15" rear tires were always in unison as they laid down serious torque all over Detroit and Dearborn. The last set of tires, H-rated BF Goodrich, were not half as sticky as the V-rated Michelins. When the BFs were new they refused to hook. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-19-2016, 09:13 AM
Dakota Boy's Avatar
Dakota Boy Dakota Boy is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 30 2009
Posts: 1,501
Dakota Boy is on a distinguished road
Default

who in Australia (those nosey inspectors) is going to know that a 58 had a one-year oddball rear suspension design? why not install some leaf springs from a 59-60?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-19-2016, 05:16 PM
scumdog's Avatar
scumdog scumdog is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: May 12 2006
Posts: 1,356
scumdog is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Boy View Post
who in Australia (those nosey inspectors) is going to know that a 58 had a one-year oddball rear suspension design? why not install some leaf springs from a 59-60?
Precisely what I thought earlier on in this thread.
Of course getting the rear spring assembly for a 59-60 Thunderbird might be tricky in Aussie!
__________________
A Thunderbirder from the Land of the Long White Cloud.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-19-2016, 05:53 PM
chris58 chris58 is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 28 2014
Posts: 243
chris58 is on a distinguished road
Default

Dakota boy, I'd be fine if I went to a leaf spring from a 59/60 but as scumdog said it would be impossible to find here.
And to purchase some from the US and get them here would be ridiculously expensive.
Out of curiosity, what's the process of installing them.
Is it just a matter of removing the existing brackets etc then welding the spring perches and away you go.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-19-2016, 08:27 PM
Dakota Boy's Avatar
Dakota Boy Dakota Boy is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 30 2009
Posts: 1,501
Dakota Boy is on a distinguished road
Default

my car had leafs installed already when I bought it. Fabricated mounting brackets up front and rear. And the '58 axle housing would probably need the perches added. the leaf springs run UNDER the axle; not above it.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-20-2016, 01:53 AM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,164
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Didn't Australia produce the '59 Ford and Ute, both of which had 2"-wide leaf springs? Aren't those cars domestically supported with aftermarket springs?

Why not take the axles, springs and mounts from those cars and use them on your rear subframe? I have to believe those axles are the same as the Squarebird's 9".

And being all Ford parts, who would be the wiser? This shouldn't require major drama but a simple swap with a little welding. Your choice of aftermarket gear sets run about US$200.00 regardless of ratio. You may be surprised about how easy this swap really is. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-20-2016, 04:22 AM
chris58 chris58 is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 28 2014
Posts: 243
chris58 is on a distinguished road
Default

It's actually funny you mentioned that Dave, just been working on the car with my mate, finished and having a beer and we were talking about the exact same thing.
We both came to the same conclusion that it could be a bit easier than first thought.
At the moment I'll get it fixed as is, get roadworthy and registration and then have a serious look into it.
Think outside the box I guess, definitely no shortage of utes in Australia.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:13 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.