This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:50 AM
Deanj Deanj is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Nov 26 2015
Posts: 385
Deanj is on a distinguished road
Default Power Brakes addition to A/C Car

I'm a new owner of a 1960 regular brakes factory A/C automatic T-Bird. I want to add power brakes, factory or aftermarket, whichever works best or easiest. I've read so many conflicting posts or posts without definitive answers. Does anyone know what will work and exactly what parts are needed for power brakes only?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-28-2015, 01:50 PM
DKheld's Avatar
DKheld DKheld is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Aug 27 2008
Posts: 1,443
DKheld is on a distinguished road
Default

Take a look under the dash - maybe you have the factory Kelsey Hayes power brake booster there? Could be standard brakes though - lots of weird combos on these cars like power windows and manual transmission.

If you do happen to have the KH booster - those can be rebuilt (if you plan on keeping the original drum system).
I recommend Booster Dewy. http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/ he rebuilt my Bendix unit and it's still gong strong 10+ years later.

I'm sure our administrator Dave Dare (simplyconnected) can help you with the info for a modern system. Don't know if there is a "list" because some choose different routes such as disc brakes rather than keeping the drum system.

If you had a non-A/C car like me and added A/C the original Bendix under the hood booster had to be moved out to clear the evaporator on the firewall. There was a factory kit for that but it's rare. I've only seen 1 in the past 15 years.

I converted mine to discs many years ago before the scarebird brackets were available.

It's very possible - just takes good planning and a bit of time.

Eric



Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-28-2015, 02:15 PM
Deanj Deanj is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Nov 26 2015
Posts: 385
Deanj is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks DK. There's nothing under the dash as it's a regular brake system. I put in a call to Booster Dewy and will follow up. I thought about the KH unit, but can't determine if the front of the unit vents into the engine compartment or just into the interior. In other words, do I cut into the firewall? I know those connected to a vacuum tank under the hood on the inner fender. It seems it would be more straight forward to find something for the late model 1960's cars similar to the Bendix unit.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-28-2015, 03:41 PM
DKheld's Avatar
DKheld DKheld is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Aug 27 2008
Posts: 1,443
DKheld is on a distinguished road
Default

Yea - thought since you just acquired the car you may not have been aware of the KH under dash unit. You are correct they have a "reserve" tank on the drivers side inner fender behind the splash panel.

Pretty sure the KH units vent under the dash not really familiar with the operation since mine has the Bendix under the hood booster and I've worked on that unit only. Don't recall any extra holes etc for the KH boosters though.

Not sure what would be needed or changed to add the KH unit. Could be a different pedal assembly. We have a great new and used parts guy here Carl Heller (partsetal). He's in Penn. If you go that route and decide to add that system he should be able to supply what you need as far as pedal brackets etc if that is needed.

I'm sure Dave will have info on a new system that fits under the hood. There have been a few folks that have gone that route. It's a brand new dual action booster and bracket that bolts right up.

Check this thread for pics.
http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14219

Eric
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-28-2015, 04:07 PM
Tbird1044 Tbird1044 is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jul 31 2012
Posts: 1,053
Tbird1044 is on a distinguished road
Default

Working under the dash to put a K/H unit in would be nerve wracking. It's pretty tight under there and you will have to fight some of the brackets. If you are starting clean, it would be much better to get/make the bracket and put the new booster in the engine compartment. You can get a booster that will also work with a disc brake setup if you want to upgrade later. Think it would be better to do it once and plan for the future.
Nyles
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-28-2015, 05:49 PM
Deanj Deanj is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Nov 26 2015
Posts: 385
Deanj is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks Eric and Nyles. I'd like to go with the booster on the firewall only because I've never seen the KH set-up in person or in photos. Who exactly do I contact for the dual action booster? Who is Dave?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-28-2015, 06:18 PM
DKheld's Avatar
DKheld DKheld is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Aug 27 2008
Posts: 1,443
DKheld is on a distinguished road
Default

Nyles is right about working under the dash - lots of fun.

Don't have a pic handy of one installed but this is the booster - no cover on the bellows I guess to save space under the dash.


Dave is one of our administrators..... Dave Dare (simplyconnected) here on the forum.


Eric
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-29-2015, 09:29 AM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,162
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

The hardest part to find is the firewall bracket. All's not lost, you can get the whole setup as a package but the price is a bit steep. A few of our members did theirs using ABS Power Brake products.

I suggest you buy the master/booster combination. It is a two-stage 8" booster with a dual piston master cylinder (yes it clears A/C):

http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset.html (page 94) Call them for pricing.

You can certainly use this with drum/drum or disk/drum brakes. Because the system is split front/rear, you need a combination proportioning valve for disk/drum or drum/drum (your choice). Don't let anyone talk you out of this important component. When there is a difference in adjustment between the front and rear systems, this valve compensates for it.

Since you will be re-piping your system, you will also need three hoses. Hoses for drum wheel cylinders are different than for disk calipers. If you don't do a disk brake conversion now but will later, you will re-pipe twice, re-buy different valves and re-buy hoses.

We use 11" Mustang rotors (with Squarebird stock bearings & seals) with Scarebird brackets and the booster mentioned above. Everything bolts on. Your wheels need to be made to clear disk brake calipers (like 14" Ranger wheels) or go with 15" wheels. The power disk brake system is not good, it is great. I guarantee you will never go back to drums ever again. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-29-2015, 12:58 PM
Deanj Deanj is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Nov 26 2015
Posts: 385
Deanj is on a distinguished road
Default

Dave, I just want the entire kit for adding power brakes to what I have.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-29-2015, 11:08 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,162
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Dean, we've been through this, several ways. You can buy the whole package and take what comes. Several of us prefer using common parts that are available across the counter at all parts stores. Usually, our pads come in a variety of hardness so we have choices. It is equally important to us that our parts will not be unavailable sometime down the road. That's why we use production Mustang rotors and production S-10 calipers (or Granada parts).

In short, I am cheap but practical. I like doing a job once and right. If I ever need replacement parts I want to know that several million other cars also use them and they will be available 'today' at a reasonable/competitive cost. I do not consider 4-piston or Wilwood parts very available or cheap. I want to buy the parts and bolt them on without machining, when I'm a hundred miles from home. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:59 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.