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  #11  
Old 11-16-2016, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
The advantage is that if you break a line with a single master cylinder you have no brakes. With a dual master cylinder you will have either front or rear brakes.

John
I'm with John...
I had a wheel cylinder cut loose. Good thing I had a dual system. - Dave
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2016, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by byersmtrco View Post
...If I had the $$$$$$$$$ she'd have 4 wheel disc.
Why? Rear drums stop just as well as rear disks because rear brakes don't do much stopping, only about 25% before rear tires start dragging.

My wife's 2010 Escape has drum rears which shows how important rear disks are. - Dave
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  #13  
Old 11-16-2016, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
The advantage is that if you break a line with a single master cylinder you have no brakes. With a dual master cylinder you will have either front or rear brakes.

John
Yep, that is THE main reason for a dual circuit brake system. Oddly, some earlier systems had a diagonal dual system, i.e each circuit did one rear brake and the diagonally opposite front brake.
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  #14  
Old 11-17-2016, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
...Oddly, some earlier systems had a diagonal dual system, i.e each circuit did one rear brake and the diagonally opposite front brake.
That was the dumbest thing Ford came up with. A stop in snow or wet leaves would send the car in circles.

I was sitting and waiting for my sliders at White Castle's drive-thru window when all of a sudden my brake pedal eased down to the floor. Of course it was rain mixed with snow, dark and miserable outside, two miles from home.

After the tow truck left my 1998 Ford Escort up the driveway, I got out the cardboard and jack. Lo and behold, two brake lines graced the rear wheels as Scumdog described and BOTH had rusted through. Maybe that was a blessing since the car was stopped when it happened but that's my luck. (I once had a Pinto that burned out both headlights at once too, and I didn't believe it.)

Thankfully, both lines only took an hour to repair and bleed because all my tools and parts were in the garage. I hate working in the cold. I have a hard time doing this type of work wearing gloves. Sometimes it gets so cold my hands don't work and steel tools make it worse. No, I'm so cheap I refuse to pay someone else to do an inferior job when I'm perfectly capable, thank you very much.

(Electrical tape doesn't work in cold, either. At Ford, I used to keep a roll of black tape in my pocket just to keep it pliable and dry when a job came up in the tank farms outside.)

Now you know why us Snow Birds change our oil and maintain our cars in Spring and Fall, religiously. One Winter, my OEM thermostat BROKE half-in-two (as they say at Ford). The engine never warmed up and the idiot light was always on. <--my luck again only this time the wind screen was icy and me arse was frozen each 1/2 hr to work and back. I waited two weeks for a decent day to fix it. - Dave
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  #15  
Old 11-17-2016, 08:30 AM
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The later MG's ('72ish and on) had the cross circuit brakes. They used an external "shuttle valve" to make the dual circuit system.

First thing I do when I buy a new (but used) vehicle is go through the brakes.

My '96 Dodge snow beast. Knew I was going to have to do rotors pads, wheel cyls, etc but after finding about 8 splices in the hard lines I replaced everything.

Look at that first splice right at a bend.



Master cyl, booster, rear abs module etc.
Someone had airplaned one of the lines right next to the exhaust manifold. When I put the new lines in I ran it differently.



Brakes are tops on my list.
Eric
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  #16  
Old 11-17-2016, 01:52 PM
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Good job! First thing I would do is get rid of those compression unions and replace with inverted flare fittings (IFF).

I'm up here in the 'rust belt' so the only brake line I use is conifer. It's easy to bend, easy to flare and it never rusts. I don't love the price but I can count on it lasting more than twice as long as steel line. A 'biggie' for me is, it won't rust from the inside, where it's impossible to see. - Dave
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  #17  
Old 11-17-2016, 02:28 PM
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Thanks Dave - yes - replaced all the lines (hard and flex) with new and eliminated all the splices or unions. Those silver lines are the old stuff. I bent new lines to match except where someone had ran one right next to the exhaust manifold. Tried the coated brake line from NAPA this go round - I'm sure it will last longer than I will own the truck. The flaring tool did damage the coating a bit at the ends when flaring the line.... The coated line is only protected on the outside though unlike conifer.
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  #18  
Old 11-17-2016, 04:17 PM
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My 72 El Camino blew a L/F brake hose. It had frt discs so a dual cyl, but the reason I still had (some) brakes is because the prop valve did it's thing. The pedal was still 1/2" off the floor.

I'd still like Rr/Disc on the T/B.
We had an 04 Tahoe with Frt/Rr discs. That thing stopped like a Winston Cup Car.
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  #19  
Old 11-17-2016, 08:34 PM
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John, Squarebird brake shoes are the same for rear and front. They are both 11" x 2-1/2" and totally swap-able.

In my opinion, the fronts are under-powered and the rear are way more than substantial. Even so, rear brakes don't do much stopping before the rear wheels drag.

We can argue that disk brakes are better but it ain't necessarily so for the rear wheels because under heavy braking, all the weight shifts to the front wheels.

Did you ever ride a bike with hand brakes? That front brake will actually lift the rear wheel off the ground before the front tire slides on dry pavement. That renders the rear brake, useless. Bikes with rear-only brakes can lock up the rear tire but the bike will slide for a long way before it stops. So it is with cars.

Rear car brake linings last much longer than front linings because of the above reasons.

I'm not opposed to rear disk brakes but they are simply superfluous. Ever see rear disk calipers (yes, the piston size)? They are tiny compared to the front calipers, just to maintain front-to-rear braking balance. - Dave
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2016, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post

Did you ever ride a bike with hand brakes? That front brake will actually lift the rear wheel off the ground before the front tire slides on dry pavement. That renders the rear brake, useless. Bikes with rear-only brakes can lock up the rear tire but the bike will slide for a long way before it stops. So it is with cars.
True Dave, I have only replace the the front pads on my Harley.

Why? - because I rarely use my rear brake, only when going down a long grade - or when going down hill on a gravel road, (Where I 'drag' the rear brake to stabilise the bike).
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