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  #11  
Old 07-27-2015, 07:14 PM
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I agree on the bottom ball joints needing to be installed from the bottom. You can see in this pic that if the tire hit an object or bump etc the force would pull up on the ball joint via the spindle. There would also be resistance of the lower A arm from moving up from the spring and shock. If bolted on top as you mentioned all that force would be on the bolts only (guess you found out the hard way but glad no one was hurt).


JMHO but the top ball joint can be installed either way. It's just a pivot point and shouldn't encounter resistance like the lower A arm...... I installed mine from the bottom. That was over 10 years ago and no problems so far. Of course these are Granada spindles for my disc brake conversion - shouldn't make any difference though. Might cause some grief at the alignment shop on a standard set up. It was a pain in the butt with the Granada spindles getting it to feel like original but finally got there if not better.




Eric
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2015, 08:06 PM
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Default upsidedown ball joints

Thanks Eric. Your thinking coincides with mine when thinking about the forces involved in driving. Especially when the suspension bottoms out. Then those bolts get a real yank. The final break came when parking. So stresses are apparently also high when grinding tires at little speed. I'll be using everyone's opinion with my garage. Thanks all. Mike
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  #13  
Old 07-27-2015, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKheld View Post
...JMHO but the top ball joint can be installed either way. It's just a pivot point and shouldn't encounter resistance like the lower A arm...... I installed mine from the bottom. That was over 10 years ago and no problems so far. Of course these are Granada spindles for my disc brake conversion - shouldn't make any difference though...
That's it!!! Eric, I'm using Granada spindles on my '55 with no problems in the alignment dept. YOU just solved your problem. All this time, I never thought to ask about how your joints were mounted AND I couldn't understand why you were having so much trouble with alignment.

When you mounted your top joint from the bottom, you hiked the top 'A' arm up. That pulled the top of your spindle inboard. So, this is not 'just' a pivot point but an integral part of your geometry. I hope you correct the mounting on your top joint.

Mike, I agree with John but I would go a bit further. Ask your shop to see the mechanic's license with certification in 'Suspension'. He should have known better if he went through proper training and testing.

One good jolt could have ripped the lower joint out and you or your family members could be seriously injured or dead. - Dave
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2015, 12:54 PM
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I rebuilt my front suspension back in 2007 and did a fairly good documentation here on my web site. I need to redo my site and post some larger images, but this is what I've got for now.

In this shot it looks like the ball joint mounts from the top:



But it must be something in the way the old one was made, because they clearly mount from the bottom:




I'd say the old shop owes you to repair the damage and have it done right.
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  #15  
Old 07-28-2015, 06:52 PM
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Doug - I had a set like that - probably inserted from the bottom but have a dust boot retainer on top.
(can't find a pic at the moment but similar to this)


Dave - after the alignment shop finally figured out the settings I wanted so my car would "feel" comfortable and easy to drive I won't change it. The shop set it for the standard settings but I didn't like how it drove - too "twitchy" at speeds above 60 and the speed on the interstates where I drive often are 70. Found myself "sawing on the steering wheel" too much so took it back for adjustments - they probably hated to see me coming with my "modified suspension".
It drives great - I've even had a few folks that have driven it ask me what kind of rack and pinion steering it has on it. With about 12K miles the tires are wearing SLIGHTLY more on the inside (about 1/32 more) than the outside so you're right - looks like it's got some negative camber. They are not cupped and don't roar so it's not toe. But like I sad - it drives so good I'll leave it as is. Who knows if it's right or not - only a handful out there with the Granada conversion.

Eric

Last edited by DKheld : 07-29-2015 at 06:22 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2015, 06:34 AM
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Thanks for all the information guys. Very helpful. What do people do to remove the springs. Is just as simple as taking the load off with a Jack and slowly letting it down. Will I be able too get them back in without the engine.
Thanks Chris.
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2015, 07:42 AM
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the shop manual shows how to use a floor jack under the lower control arm for the removal. the front of the car needs to be raised pretty high first. The spring will fall right out once the lower control arm is pointing down at 6 o'clock position.

Loosen the two bolts where the control arm mounts to the frame before you do that or I believe the bushings will get tore up.

Putting them back in without an engine will not be easy; as you need a lot of weight on the car in order to get that lower ball joint back in the spindle.
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  #18  
Old 07-29-2015, 06:30 PM
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X2 on Greg's info. Used to remember but it's been 10+ years since I rebuilt my front end (too long) - think it was 28 inches that the front needed to be off the ground for the lower A-arms to come down far enough to get the springs out - pretty high.
Without the engine in there I'd bet you will need a coil spring compressor to put it back together. I remember when putting mine back in I had to get a friend to sit on the fender to keep the front end from lifting.

Yes - you can laugh at the "wood" colored jack stand -



Eric
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2015, 10:22 PM
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For another point of reference, that is a standard 6 ton jack stand in the background. It was not extended much at all but I had a small piece of 2x4 in between the top of the stand and the underside of the car. Second pic is when the spring was ready to fall out.
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  #20  
Old 07-29-2015, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddgilroy View Post
For another point of reference, that is a standard 6 ton jack stand in the background. It was not extended much at all but I had a small piece of 2x4 in between the top of the stand and the underside of the car...
I prefer to spread my jack stands out.

Did you ever skate or roller blade? With your feet together, it's much easier to fall over. If you spread your legs out, one forward and one behind, while traveling, it's nearly impossible to fall forward or backward. We call this the 'platform'.

Same holds true with stands. I put my front stands on the frame, close to the bumper, very high. Then I give the car a good shake before crawling under it.

I use a scissors jack, directly under the joint, for the best spring control. Yes, there are probably dozens of ways that work but I take extra safety precautions which is why I still have all my digits. - Dave
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