This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 05-27-2014, 11:49 AM
A390GT A390GT is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 16 2013
Posts: 19
A390GT is on a distinguished road
Default Steering box swap?

Does anyone know if you can swap in a 1968 mustang steering box into a 60 bird? I need a box with a rag joint so I can swap in a aftermarket tilt column. In have one on the shelf and they look really similar.
Thanks,
John
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-27-2014, 12:37 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,881
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

Not without doing some modifications. Looking at them side by side the mounting holes are different so you will have to modify the frame holes so it lines up. Also there is very little clearance between the stock gear and the exhaust manifold. Since you have both available I would take them apart and see if you can use the Mustang rag joint connector with the Thunderbird housing.

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tbird steering.jpg (8.5 KB, 137 views)
File Type: jpg mustang steering.jpg (11.8 KB, 137 views)
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-27-2014, 03:02 PM
ncbird ncbird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Jan 5 2008
Posts: 390
ncbird is on a distinguished road
Default borgeson

I have looked and have not come up with a good swap and my re builder says there is not a direct swap. Borgeson makes some modified box's but I would probably use one of their couplers. They make all kinds to adapt the aftermarket columns etc. I would look at cutting the shaft in the current box and using their coupler to go to the new column. Most of the columns, Ididit Flaming River etc use borgeson couplers. The thing to be aware of is our box's are not sealed (I am told) where the shaft goes into the box and are susceptible to water intrusion at that point.
Grant.
__________________
Grant
NCbird on the Coast of NC
"Dads Bird" for my father
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-27-2014, 06:33 PM
pcjr pcjr is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 28 2012
Posts: 42
pcjr is on a distinguished road
Default Steering Box

There is quite a bit more to consider. First of all, any box that you use that eliminates the lower power steering cylinder will be quite a bit bigger than the stock unit. This makes it necessary to modify not only your steering column but also your gear selector linkage and in my case, the firewall. If you are using headers you will also need to modify the drivers side rear exhaust tube on the header. It is far from just a swap.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-27-2014, 06:48 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,160
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Just out of curiosity, since you are going through all those changes, why not remove the box and add a rack gear? I did that to our '59 Galaxie, using the OEM column, but you can use any column.

I cut double 'D' slots in the OEM shaft and connected with Borgeson connectors (no rag). The rack gear already had the same connection and the power steering lines were AN connectors that I married to a Mustang pump.

The only 'trick' is to use the original mounting holes in the frame by making two plates (one on each frame rail).

Why use the original holes? Because there are 'curly-Q' brackets spot welded between the frame rail halves (around the bolt holes) so bolts can't crush them together and the steering box mounts to a solid member. That also means you might run into the bracket if you try altering the holes.

BTW, Ford steering boxes are totally sealed and can be submerged in water. 3571 & 3591 are both shaft seals. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-27-2014, 06:54 PM
Tbird1044 Tbird1044 is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jul 31 2012
Posts: 1,051
Tbird1044 is on a distinguished road
Default

I asked a friend that did a swap in his 60 TBird and it is really a clean install. Here is what he sent me: MY BOX IS AFTERMARKET BUILT BY ABS IN ORANGE CA. 714-771-6549 TALK TO PEDRO. THE BOX BOLTS RIGHT IN . YOU WILL NEED TO BUY A FEW OTHER PARTS.
If you send me a Private message, I can give you contact info for him. I think he is installing a 351 Windsor motor with headers and it looks like everything should clear. Not sure what he is using for his tilt column. this may not be the cheapest way to go, but it sure looks clean.
Nyles
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-28-2014, 01:48 PM
A390GT A390GT is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 16 2013
Posts: 19
A390GT is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for all the help. I'm changing everything over for a safer setup for my father to drive. New master cyl with Disc brakes faster power / tilt steering and a locking shifter. I'm doing his 64 Bonneville and its so far a very easy swap. This one seems like it's going to be a bit of a fight.
Any pics of the box install from abs? It's got the factory 352 in it so I don't know if ill have fitment issues.. The tilt is from flaming river, I still have to find a "stock" looking steering wheel for it. Ill probably send a second post but does anyone have a PDF wiring diagram of the steering column?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-28-2014, 02:43 PM
DKheld's Avatar
DKheld DKheld is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Aug 27 2008
Posts: 1,443
DKheld is on a distinguished road
Default

Couldn't find anything searching on "ABS steering boxes" for the Tbird - maybe Pedro knows something we don't. Hopefully someone will have a pic.

Hummmm? Maybe this is what Grant is referring to? Says the column will need mods but maybe not a factor if replacing with a tilt.
http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_fa...tabs-container

Column diagram info
http://squarebirds.org/images_steering_wheel/

As mentioned - going to be tight at the back of the manifold. This is my stock 352 and there is only about an inch clearance between the steering box and the manifold. You can see the edge of the box just past the A/C hoses and then the brown manifold - pretty close.
Also - the manifold is specific to the '58-'60 Tbird and if it has been replaced with a later 390 manifold (which will fit) there will be even less clearance (1/2 inch or so).
Keep in mind that the new steering box will be right next to the manifold so it may need a heat shield.



Good luck - let us know what you work out.
Eric

edit - here's the steering page of the ABS catalog.
http://abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset043.html

Last edited by DKheld : 05-28-2014 at 02:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-28-2014, 03:45 PM
pcjr pcjr is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 28 2012
Posts: 42
pcjr is on a distinguished road
Default Power Steering Box

Quote:
Originally Posted by A390GT View Post
Thanks for all the help. I'm changing everything over for a safer setup for my father to drive. New master cyl with Disc brakes faster power / tilt steering and a locking shifter. I'm doing his 64 Bonneville and its so far a very easy swap. This one seems like it's going to be a bit of a fight.
Any pics of the box install from abs? It's got the factory 352 in it so I don't know if ill have fitment issues.. The tilt is from flaming river, I still have to find a "stock" looking steering wheel for it. Ill probably send a second post but does anyone have a PDF wiring diagram of the steering column?
I will be up to see my car this Friday. I would be glad to send you some photos of the new box installation. I am not sure how relative it will be to your car as I have changed the power brakes to an electric power brake unit, installed headers, removed the firewall mounted A/C unit and had the firewall modified. That said, it should give you an idea at least of how it fits. Please send me your email address by PM so I can send the photos without the hassle of compressing them to post here.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-28-2014, 09:32 PM
A390GT A390GT is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 16 2013
Posts: 19
A390GT is on a distinguished road
Default

Is the thunderbird considered a full sized ford
Mac's looks like it would work its 625 but it doesn't look like a kit
I got a text from abs
PART # 587..$800.00.ADAPTOR SIZE -30 X 1 DD
Trying to find out if it is a complete kit like their mustang conversion
Ill have some time to make some calls on Friday
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:29 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.