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  #1  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:07 PM
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Red face '64 Brake Lights staying on...

One more for my new Bird neighbor.

My neighbor noticed that his brake lamps stay on all the time. He has to disconnect the 2 lead wires under the hood, at the stop light switch on his master cylinder. I told him to replace this pressure switch because they are notorious for going bad & they are cheep enough too.

The one thing he has noticed, is by disconnecting these 2 wires, his stock in dash oil pressure guage starts working. When he plugs these 2 brake light switch wires back in, his oil gauge stops working.

I told him that surely these are on 2 different circuits & something has to be wired incorrectly behind his dash.

Being that I've only worked on my '60 Bird & older Ford's I know nothing about what Ford might have changed by 1964?? My neighbor does have some wiring diagrams printed off for his '64 Bird & I told him it will probably be time to start chasing down these wires behind his dash. The prior owner must have wired something wrong.....?

Any advice is appreciated fellow Birders.

-Jon in TX.
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:36 PM
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Looking at the wiring diagram the only place where those two circuits come close to one another is in the fuse box. The fuses are next to one another. I would look there. Some of the fuses are coupled together. It's possible that someone tied the two together incorrectly. If not that than I'm with you that it's probably something in the dash.

John
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:19 PM
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New owener here, I was looking in the fuse panel and there are 3 visable relays, 2 of which are hooked together. Does anyone know which 2 SHOULD be hooked together, and how. (series or parallel) I've noticed for about the first 10 minutes of driving they work fine. But then the brake lights are on constantly, even after the car is shut off. I have an idea that for some reason pressure is building up behind the brake switch on the brake booster, and for some reason not being released. So the switch is seeing constant pressure, telling the lights to stay on. I don't like the wiring that has been done to it so I will be redoing that today. Looks like a new brake switch though.?
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:27 PM
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If you look in the Technical Resource Library you will find wiring diagrams including a diagram of the fuse box. The two large fuses on the right are tied together.

John
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Short Steppin' View Post
New owener here, I was looking in the fuse panel and there are 3 visable relays, 2 of which are hooked together. Does anyone know which 2 SHOULD be hooked together, and how. (series or parallel) I've noticed for about the first 10 minutes of driving they work fine. But then the brake lights are on constantly, even after the car is shut off. I have an idea that for some reason pressure is building up behind the brake switch on the brake booster, and for some reason not being released. So the switch is seeing constant pressure, telling the lights to stay on. I don't like the wiring that has been done to it so I will be redoing that today. Looks like a new brake switch though.?
Page 15-10 of the shop manual shows the fuse panel. The feed to the top right circuit breaker (12 amps to light switch) is tied to the one directly below it (15 amps to stop light). The feed for these is on the left (towards the front of the car) and is black/ yellow stripe. The load wire on the upper is yellow/ red, and the lower green/ red.
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2013, 09:24 PM
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Your problem is not electrical. The switch is a pressure switch that closes contacts when it sees brake line pressure. It is doing just that.

You have another thread describing brakes that stick or drag. Hmmm... Maybe your master cylinder isn't retracting. (Just like you described in the other thread.)

Brake fluid expands with heat. In a closed system, that causes the pressure switch to work. So, your electrical is confirming your suspicions.

When a Master Cylinder fully retracts, the reservoir is open to the brake line. Meaning, if you take the cover off the M/C, fill it with fluid, then go to a wheel cylinder and take the bleeder screw off, the fluid will slowly drain out. It has to be that way for shoe springs to retract. They force fluid back into the reservoir, so it has to be open.

First, I would find out why the M/C isn't retracting. You said you can lift the brake pedal and that would do it. Find out why it is binding. Leave all the lines on but unbolt the M/C, then look at your brake lights. The M/C has a return spring inside which pushes the spool back to the snap ring.

If that checks out ok, leave the M/C off and continue checking the booster and linkage. Get the mechanical problems put to bed first, then get into the electrical. Good luck. - Dave
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:45 PM
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Right, I think whatever the problem is, it is the cause of both issues. I think the heat causes pressure to build up, but then it won't release. Maybe a new M/C soon if I cant get it to release, the brake booster looks brand new.

Thanks for the input. I'll see what I can figure out.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:08 PM
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This isn't hard... Crack the line going to the wheel that's sticking. That relieves any hydraulic pressure. Next, fix the back plate pads and springs so the shoes retract smoothly.

Then, make your M/C adjustments so that the piston returns.

Now, git to git'n! - Dave
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:23 PM
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Got to mess with it on Sunday before leaving town for the week. It IS the M/C.. It has a new switch, and new booster, but old MC. I drove it long enough Sunday for the pressure to build up tight enough to where the rear wouldn't even release when I pulled on the pedal AND the lights wouldn't go out.

More to come once I'm home this weekend.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:46 AM
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I recommend replacing it with a dual master if you haven't already done so. That is always my first modification to an old car with a single.

Aside from the usual hydraulic modifications and push rod length issues, on the 64 you would have a conflict between the diagonal brace and the cover on the dual master. I solved this by cutting a notch out of the cover, then using a small piece of sheet metal, bending it and trimming it to cover the hole. I used solder to make it liquid tight and then painted it semi-gloss black.

Here's a picture with the brace removed.
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