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  #41  
Old 04-07-2013, 12:27 PM
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Dave,

Thanks for clearing that up. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

John
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  #42  
Old 04-07-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy cruise View Post

Thanks John, do you think the heads will change the compression?
You have to know the cylinder head combustion chamber CC to determine that.

Quote:
I think the TE stands for truck engine.
D= 1970 (Decade)
2= 1972
T= TRUCK (Light - Medium - and possibly HEAVY*
E= Identifies part as being in the Engine Group (Engineering No)

* H was usually the Third Prefix Character regarding heavy truck.

Quote:
I also checked the tranny and it is a cast bell the # on bell housing is PBB 7976B do you think that's a cruiso. I see they have a FX,MX,HX and FMX. I have no idea. Thanks for any info.

Tommy"
You need to measure main case length to determine trans type.
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  #43  
Old 04-07-2013, 02:36 PM
tommy cruise tommy cruise is offline
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Default D2TE-AA heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
I spoke with Tom tonight and I find him to be very pleasant and knowledgeable regarding Ford engines and transmissions. Tom is VERY happy with his engine and transmission and excited to learn more about his unique setup.

As you all suspected, Tom has a light truck 390 (TE) from the early 70's. His stroke is longer than 3.5" which makes it a 390. Remember, 390s and 427s used the same Crankshaft; the only difference is bore diameters. FE parts were designed to be interchanged with the goal of making your engine specific to your application be it for car, boat, construction equipment, etc.

Truck pulleys and T-bird pulleys are different lengths. His engine and heads were truck, and the timing cover, pulleys and final dress are T-bird or Galaxie. That would explain why his Expansion Tank looks different, with the fill neck off to the side instead of on top.

Tom is very impressed with how smooth his engine runs. To me, that indicates someone did a good rebuild and not too long ago.

Tom's Fuel Pump broke. The parts counter guys couldn't find the correct part (for a Squarebird engine). They went through the years and found it matched a '72 Fairlane. That confirms our suspicions as his Timing Cover has the Fuel Pump mounting holes in a lower place.

John, I read that about the "flame hardened" valve seats. The problem isn't just the seats. It's also with the valves. Modern cars use stainless valves which cannot weld themselves to the seat material. I showed one pic of the '73 TE head. To pass fair judgment here are the remaining nine with a pic of both heads:

http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0269.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0270.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0271.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0272.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0273.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0274.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0276.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0277.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0278.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0279.jpg

I don't know how anyone can 'harden' nodular cast iron because it has over 2% carbon and no grain structure. It's already so hard it's brittle. They chipped off core 'flash' with air hammers at the Dearborn Iron Foundry. Dozens of workers worked on the Chipping Lines and pieces of iron chips went flying everywhere. Everyone gladly wore ear muffs and safety goggles. I remember one guy's job was to stick a board in a bore and flip the blocks over as they traveled to the next guy.
Dave thanks for taking the time to help me last night, you are very knowledgeable and was a pleasure speaking with you. I just called the person I purchased from and he is going to try and find the name and # of person he purchased from. I also noticed it has a duel vacume dist which didn't come into play until 1968, as the plot thickens. I am just very curious to find out what I have. I will post as I learn more. Thanks to all for trying to help me. Tommy"
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  #44  
Old 04-09-2013, 12:50 PM
tommy cruise tommy cruise is offline
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Default casting #'s

Hi, I've been thinking I might have a set of #'s backward. The
BO349ES3C reading with a mirror could be C3SE9430B I don't know if this is of any help. Thanks again Tommy"
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  #45  
Old 04-09-2013, 02:26 PM
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Default New member, Tommy with 59 t-bird

Hi Tommy, Sorry I did not think of this sooner. The B0 number could not possibly be correct, because there was no B0 number for Tbirds. B5-B9, yes, but 0 would have been a C0 series. So yes, you had the numbers reversed. The research I just did says that the C3SE9430B is the right hand exhaust manifold for a 390 1963 Tbird, the C3S says C=1960's, the 3=1963 and the S=Thunderbird. The left hand side is the C3SE9431B, which is what you should find on it when you look. I also read and have seen these advertised as being used on the 63-64 Galaxie.

So you have a 390 1972 light to medium truck engine, with 390 1963 Tbird exhaust manifolds. From the sound of what has been said about it, you have a good engine. You probably have, as indicated by that tranny tag, a heavy duty tranny that was used with the 430MEL engine. As Gary said, you need to measure the length of it to see what you get. Or look for more casting numbers, and get ALL the information off the tranny tag, if you have not already done so. You probably have a HX type tranny.

I am going to post the pix here on where to measure your tranny to help determine what you have. The tag on the tranny should have said 430 off to the left side of the tag. The right side should say PBB, as it does, also indicating it is a tranny used with the 430MEL engine, followed by a series of numbers or letters, which it does. A PBL designator indicates it was a tranny used with the 352 engine. There are other markings or castings you should look for also, like a 3 digit casting that will tell you when it was made. So a previous owner must have decided that he wanted a heavier duty tranny with that truck engine and went the HX 430MEL route.

As you will see by the one pic that a 1958-1960 HX 3-speed will have a measurement of HX 10 7/8" between the areas marked "A". A 1961 and on HX will be 11.6" in that same area. I hope this helps.

I thought I had these two pix in the Technical Resource Library, but didn't. I do now. To zoom in on them use Ctrl + on your keyboard.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Cruise-O-Matic I.D._1.jpg (59.8 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg Cruise-O-Matic I.D._7.jpg (29.8 KB, 96 views)
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"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

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Last edited by YellowRose : 04-09-2013 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Additional Comments
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  #46  
Old 04-09-2013, 06:48 PM
tommy cruise tommy cruise is offline
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Default casting #'s

Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post
Hi Tommy, Sorry I did not think of this sooner. The B0 number could not possibly be correct, because there was no B0 number for Tbirds. B5-B9, yes, but 0 would have been a C0 series. So yes, you had the numbers reversed. The research I just did says that the C3SE9430B is the right hand exhaust manifold for a 390 1963 Tbird, the C3S says C=1960's, the 3=1963 and the S=Thunderbird. The left hand side is the C3SE9431B, which is what you should find on it when you look. I also read and have seen these advertised as being used on the 63-64 Galaxie.

So you have a 390 1972 light to medium truck engine, with 390 1963 Tbird exhaust manifolds. From the sound of what has been said about it, you have a good engine. You probably have, as indicated by that tranny tag, a heavy duty tranny that was used with the 430MEL engine. As Gary said, you need to measure the length of it to see what you get. Or look for more casting numbers, and get ALL the information off the tranny tag, if you have not already done so. You probably have a HX type tranny.

I am going to post the pix here on where to measure your tranny to help determine what you have. The tag on the tranny should have said 430 off to the left side of the tag. The right side should say PBB, as it does, also indicating it is a tranny used with the 430MEL engine, followed by a series of numbers or letters, which it does. A PBL designator indicates it was a tranny used with the 352 engine. There are other markings or castings you should look for also, like a 3 digit casting that will tell you when it was made. So a previous owner must have decided that he wanted a heavier duty tranny with that truck engine and went the HX 430MEL route.

As you will see by the one pic that a 1958-1960 HX 3-speed will have a measurement of HX 10 7/8" between the areas marked "A". A 1961 and on HX will be 11.6" in that same area. I hope this helps.

I thought I had these two pix in the Technical Resource Library, but didn't. I do now. To zoom in on them use Ctrl + on your keyboard.
Hi Ray, thanks for the research when I go back up on 19th I will do some more research and find all the #'s. Now when I was trying to get a fuel pump one of the pumps that fit was a 1963 galaxie 390. Now i'm thinking that it is a 390 63 galaxie because those #'s were on the block. I think they put the D2TE AA heads on for the induction hardened seats. Those heads are a late production the double A is one of the last production put on the FE. Ford trucks started using induction hardened heads in 1975-76 they also have 3/8" valve stems, they are decent heads high velocity flow for efficiency, but be careful because if the heads had a valve job prior you could loose some of the hardness.Thank you all for trying to help me, and I will post more as soon as I find out. Tommy"
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  #47  
Old 04-10-2013, 12:26 AM
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Default New member, Tommy with 59 t-bird

Earlier this evening, Tommy and I were hashing these casting numbers out. After going over them and their location it appears that he may have a 1963 Tbird 390 engine, with 1972 Truck heads. Part of the problem he was running into was using a mirror to try and get readings from hard to get to locations. A couple of times, it appears he had the numbers reversed. For example, C3SE9430B he had as B0349ES3C, and 3H6 as 6H3.

Here is a compilation of numbers he has seen so far on the engine.

C3SE6T3 - Engine Block Casting # = C=1960's, 3=1963, S=Thunderbird, E=Engine Group, 6T3?(Don't know what that is)
3H6 - Build Date on Engine Block - 3=1963 H=August 6=6th
C3SE9430B - RH Exhaust Manifold - C3S=1963 Tbird
I am assuming that the LH Exhaust Manifold is a:
C3SE9431B - LH Exhaust Manifold - C3S=1963 Tbird
D2TE AA = Head casting # - D=1970's, 2=1972, E=Engine Group

So the heads might be from a 1972 Light/Medium Truck, but the engine block seems to be from a 1963 Tbird. Someone correct me if I am barking up the wrong tree... You guys know more about these part # and casting # breakdowns than I do.
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'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
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  #48  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:28 PM
tommy cruise tommy cruise is offline
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Default oil filter location

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
I spoke with Tom tonight and I find him to be very pleasant and knowledgeable regarding Ford engines and transmissions. Tom is VERY happy with his engine and transmission and excited to learn more about his unique setup.

As you all suspected, Tom has a light truck 390 (TE) from the early 70's. His stroke is longer than 3.5" which makes it a 390. Remember, 390s and 427s used the same Crankshaft; the only difference is bore diameters. FE parts were designed to be interchanged with the goal of making your engine specific to your application be it for car, boat, construction equipment, etc.

Truck pulleys and T-bird pulleys are different lengths. His engine and heads were truck, and the timing cover, pulleys and final dress are T-bird or Galaxie. That would explain why his Expansion Tank looks different, with the fill neck off to the side instead of on top.

Tom is very impressed with how smooth his engine runs. To me, that indicates someone did a good rebuild and not too long ago.

Tom's Fuel Pump broke. The parts counter guys couldn't find the correct part (for a Squarebird engine). They went through the years and found it matched a '72 Fairlane. That confirms our suspicions as his Timing Cover has the Fuel Pump mounting holes in a lower place.

John, I read that about the "flame hardened" valve seats. The problem isn't just the seats. It's also with the valves. Modern cars use stainless valves which cannot weld themselves to the seat material. I showed one pic of the '73 TE head. To pass fair judgment here are the remaining nine with a pic of both heads:

http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0269.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0270.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0271.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0272.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0273.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0274.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0276.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0277.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0278.jpg
http://squarebirds.org/Engine/FE-Valves/DSCN0279.jpg

I don't know how anyone can 'harden' nodular cast iron because it has over 2% carbon and no grain structure. It's already so hard it's brittle. They chipped off core 'flash' with air hammers at the Dearborn Iron Foundry. Dozens of workers worked on the Chipping Lines and pieces of iron chips went flying everywhere. Everyone gladly wore ear muffs and safety goggles. I remember one guy's job was to stick a board in a bore and flip the blocks over as they traveled to the next guy.
Hi Dave, I got thinking and you would probably know more about this. My oil filter is located drivers side in the rear of block and is of small size filter and vertical. If I remember right the filters on car 390 were lg. and towards the front and horizontal. I don't know i'm just at a stand still until I get more #'s. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks Tommy"
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  #49  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:58 PM
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Can you tell if there is an adapter on there to move the filter to a different location. All FE engines have the oil filter opening on the driver's side front. I do know of adapters that you can install to change where the filter is similar to this one

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg filter adapter.jpg (219.3 KB, 71 views)
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  #50  
Old 04-11-2013, 08:28 PM
tommy cruise tommy cruise is offline
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Default oil filter location

Quote:
Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
Can you tell if there is an adapter on there to move the filter to a different location. All FE engines have the oil filter opening on the driver's side front. I do know of adapters that you can install to change where the filter is similar to this one

John
Hi John, there is an adapter on the drivers side rear and filter screws into it and is the small screw on filter and it is vertical. I didn't notice any other plates up front on side, It might have one I really wasn't looking for it but I just remembered the location of filter and didn't know if it would help to identify the engine. Thanks Tommy"
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