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  #1  
Old 03-28-2013, 07:08 PM
Ickaber Ickaber is offline
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Default 1963 - Hot air choke and brake booster vacuum

So I bought my 1963 hardtop 9 days ago and joined Squarebirds 6 days ago. I ordered the shop manual a couple of days later and have been waiting anxiously for it so that I could sort out a couple of issues. It finally arrived today, but after reading through the appropriate sections, I'm no closer to figuring out what's going on, so here I am. Having spent too many hours this past week reading every post I could find here, I'm confident that you guys can help me out.

I'm most interested in sorting out two issues first:
1. The carburetor (Holley 4160, I believe) has a hot air choke, but it's not connected and I can't figure out how to hook it up. The previous owner had installed this carb, and mentioned it wasn't hooked up.

2. The brake booster has no vacuum hoses attached, and I'd like to have them hooked up properly as well. It's still all drums -- I'd like to convert to disc, but that isn't today -- so I'd like to have them working as well as they can.

Some background... the previous owner pulled the engine from a pickup, but I don't know what year. He said it's still an FE 390, and I'm inclined to believe him as he has several other Fords from that year that he's done a lot to and seemed to know what he's doing. (He has a beautiful Galaxie.) I've read that I might need to measure to know for sure, but I haven't had a chance to do that yet. It seems that casting numbers can be located several places from what I've read. All I've noted so far are those below the air cleaner, which say 3B6 and then below that C3AE9425B. Do those help at all in identifying this engine?

The reason I feel identifying the engine might be important is because from what I've gathered from the manual, for both the hot air choke as well as the vacuum for the brake booster, it says that there should be ports in the exhaust manifold; one on each side.

But, I don't seem to be able to locate anything that looks like those ports, and I'm wondering if a different year engine might not have them. There are some coarse-threaded holes that look like a bolt could go in there, but I think those are used to lift the engine, or something along those lines. They don't seem to go into the manifold, but just bottom out.

On the right exhaust manifold, there are two small holes near the back, and I can't tell if it looks like they should do anything or not.

Any help, or thoughts at all, are appreciated.

Scott
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2013, 12:56 AM
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simplyconnected simplyconnected is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickaber View Post
...the previous owner pulled the engine from a pickup, but I don't know what year.

C3AE9425B. Do those help at all in identifying this engine?...
Scott, welcome to Squarebirds.org. All FE engines look the same from the outside.
There is an easy way to tell if your engine has a 390/427 crank:
Put your timing on TDC and pull #1 and #4 spark plugs.

When #1 is up, #4 is down. Now take a welding rod and stick it in #1 spark plug hole, all the way down (it won't go far). At the valve cover flange, mark the welding rod with a sharpie marker.

Remove the rod and stick it down #4 spark plug hole, and mark it using the same valve cover flange.

Now, measure between your marks.
The 352 has a stroke = 3.5"
The 390 has a stroke = 3.78" That's a quarter inch longer.

Generally speaking, if your marks are anything more than 3-1/2" apart, you have a 390.

Your casting number identifies a Ford Intake Manifold from 1963. If it were from a light truck, the first digits could read C3TE. C3AE identifies a Ford Car. These engines are nearly identical and Ford put the 390 in EVERYTHING! It is by far, the easiest and most inexpensive engine to find parts for, OEM and aftermarket. That is my engine of choice for Thunderbirds. - Dave
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2013, 07:21 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickaber View Post

I'm most interested in sorting out two issues first:

1. The carburetor (Holley 4160, I believe) has a hot air choke, but it's not connected and I can't figure out how to hook it up. The previous owner had installed this carb, and mentioned it wasn't hooked up.
The 4160 HOLLEY is not original equipment for the BIRD, but can be used. Choke tubing kits are available to make your own.

Quote:
2. The brake booster has no vacuum hoses attached, and I'd like to have them hooked up properly as well. It's still all drums -- I'd like to convert to disc, but that isn't today -- so I'd like to have them working as well as they can.
I am sending Ray some illustrations

Quote:
Some background... the previous owner pulled the engine from a pickup, but I don't know what year. He said it's still an FE 390, and I'm inclined to believe him as he has several other Fords from that year that he's done a lot to and seemed to know what he's doing. (He has a beautiful Galaxie.) I've read that I might need to measure to know for sure, but I haven't had a chance to do that yet. It seems that casting numbers can be located several places from what I've read. All I've noted so far are those below the air cleaner, which say 3B6 and then below that C3AE9425B. Do those help at all in identifying this engine?

The reason I feel identifying the engine might be important is because from what I've gathered from the manual, for both the hot air choke as well as the vacuum for the brake booster, it says that there should be ports in the exhaust manifold; one on each side.

But, I don't seem to be able to locate anything that looks like those ports, and I'm wondering if a different year engine might not have them. There are some coarse-threaded holes that look like a bolt could go in there, but I think those are used to lift the engine, or something along those lines. They don't seem to go into the manifold, but just bottom out.

On the right exhaust manifold, there are two small holes near the back, and I can't tell if it looks like they should do anything or not.

Any help, or thoughts at all, are appreciated.

Scott
The intake manifold is correct. He must have swapped that from the old engine. You need to find the block, cylinder heads and exhaust manifold Casting I.D. Nos.

If from a pickup, it may be a 352, 360 or 390.
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  #4  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:04 AM
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Default 1963 - Hot air choke and brake booster vacuum

Here is the information that Gary asked me to post. Hope this helps! You can zoom in and out by using CTRL + or - to view them. First is the Choke Tubes for a '60-'64 FE.

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...60-64%20FE.jpg

Here is the Brake Booster Install for a '61-'63 Tbird.

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...-63%20BIRD.jpg

Here are the other pix he sent me. The first one with the blue valve covers shows a Choke Stove- (Early FE).

The second pic shows a Choke Stove- 62 BIRD 390.

The third pic shows a C3AE 9425-B.

The fourth pic shows a Choke Stove Line Kit.

The fifth pic shows a C1AA 2A185-A.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Choke Stove- (Early FE).jpg (120.9 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg Choke Stove- 62 BIRD 390.jpg (31.0 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg C3AE 9425-B.jpg (17.6 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg Choke Stove Line Kit.jpg (22.9 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg C1AA 2A185-A.jpg (5.5 KB, 45 views)
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  #5  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:33 AM
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Ian M Greer Ian M Greer is offline
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Scott, the shot of the intake shows the brass fitting towards the rear just to the side of the carburetor , this is the vacumn pick-up point for the power booster , the other stub on the power booster check-valve attaches to the metal pipe that runs down to the transmission modulating valve . Ian
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:58 AM
Ickaber Ickaber is offline
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I knew I'd come to the right place.

For the choke stove (nice to know what it's called), the second pic, of the '62 390, looks the most like what I have. The tubes themselves are missing, but the two holes in my exhaust manifold look about the same as in the pic.

For the booster vacuum lines, I think I was looking in the wrong place.

Thanks all for the information. I'll check this out as soon as I can and get back to you.

Scott
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2013, 02:12 PM
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Don't forget the vacuum hose from the booster check valve to the transmission modulator.

John
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  #8  
Old 03-29-2013, 03:35 PM
Ickaber Ickaber is offline
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Default Here's what I've got

So my best guess here is that I need the '63 choke tube set. The hole on the left connects to the nipple under the air cleaner, and the hole on the right connects to the carb.



Here's my brass valve, which has been painted blue. The line coming off the bottom runs through the firewall (I think for the windshield wipers?) and the one headed up disappears underneath, but connects to some steel tube on the way down. My thought here is that they connected directly to the transmission modulator (thanks Ian and jopizz). So I need to connect from the valve to the booster, then from the booster to the transmission modulator. What's the third piece of the check valve for? It's currently plugged.





Here's another casting number I noticed. (As you stand looking in from the front of the engine compartment, it's on the front of the engine towards the lower right.) Looks like it says "67 352". Should I be concerned yet about which motor I have?



Thanks again everyone! I appreciate you taking the time to help me figure this out. I'm pretty new to this, but am having fun with it and you all make a big difference.

Scott
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2013, 01:52 AM
KULTULZ
 
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The third nipple on the check valve is not used on your application. That valve was used on many car lines.
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2013, 04:10 AM
Ickaber Ickaber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
The third nipple on the check valve is not used on your application. That valve was used on many car lines.
Good to know. Thanks Kultulz.

So tonight I noticed that the line that runs from the brass valve to the transmission had a coupler in it. It looks like the previous owner had just pulled both lines off the booster and connected them to each other, bypassing the booster altogether.

I removed the coupler and connected the lines back to the booster, then tried to follow the troubleshooting instructions from the manual which said to pump the brakes a couple of times and then try to start the car while putting pressure on the pedal. It said I should notice the pedal go to the floor just a bit more once the vacuum from the engine kicks in.

So I tried that and the only thing that happened was that the car started to idle really rough. It seems the booster isn't functioning properly, but is the rough idle indicative of any particular problem? Or does it seem that the whole booster needs to be replaced/rebuilt? Is it time to call Booster Dewey? (I told you I've read nearly ever post here.)

As always, thanks for any input.

Scott
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