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  #11  
Old 09-19-2012, 01:35 AM
NYsquarebird58 NYsquarebird58 is offline
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The blue spring on the bottom of Ray's picture. One side connects to the shoe and the other to the brake adjuster. Did the other side originally connect to the other shoe? I only ask because that spring looks kind of long and wasn't sure if I needed to use a different spring for the self adjusters.
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2012, 11:30 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYsquarebird58 View Post

The blue spring on the bottom of Ray's picture. One side connects to the shoe and the other to the brake adjuster. Did the other side originally connect to the other shoe? I only ask because that spring looks kind of long and wasn't sure if I needed to use a different spring for the self adjusters.
It seems the kits you got do not have the retracting springs included. You need to source those kits also. The spring in question is especially for the self adjust feature.

Be aware that the adjusters (and levers) have a L and R application. They should be marked under the star wheel pivot.
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2012, 05:05 PM
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...also note that the primary shoe is the short lining. It mounts towards the front of the car. The secondary shoe does most of the work and usually has a longer lining. Mount the secondary towards the rear of the car.

Sometimes the primary and secondary linings are the same length because the composition of the lining will be different, with a softer primary and a harder secondary. Either they are marked on the side of the lining (PRI or SEC) or they are different lengths. Different composite linings are usually different colors (gray and much darker). - Dave
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  #14  
Old 09-19-2012, 11:44 PM
NYsquarebird58 NYsquarebird58 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
It seems the kits you got do not have the retracting springs included. You need to source those kits also. The spring in question is especially for the self adjust feature.

Be aware that the adjusters (and levers) have a L and R application. They should be marked under the star wheel pivot.
Is this something that can be sourced at an outoparts store or will I have better luck ordering online?

Do they sell just that spring or do I need to get the whole spring kit for the rear drums and if so, for what year, make and model should I get it for?

Maybe Ray has part numbers for the spring kits he used on Yellowrose?

I need to try and source this for the weekend. I'm running out of weekends before it starts getting too cold around here to work outside.
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2012, 12:17 AM
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Default Need picture of self adjusters installed on drum brakes

Hi Marcelo,

Unfortunately, I do not have that information. The packaging that the kits came was was discarded after putting them on.
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  #16  
Old 09-20-2012, 03:09 AM
KULTULZ
 
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You should be able to source the springs (whether separately or in a kit) from the same vendor (WAGNER) as the adjuster kits. Years ago, the changeover kits in complete form were common. I think what you have gotten is just a service replacement hardware kit.

Let me look around and see what I can find.


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  #17  
Old 09-20-2012, 05:15 AM
KULTULZ
 
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This is frustrating...

It is difficult to chase down parts on the net as it seems each vendor has it's own interpretation and also use generic photos.

Simply put, it seems complete changeover kits that were once popular (along with kits that also removed the self-adjusting feature) are not available (or I can't find them).

Unless one has the takeoff parts from a later car (it seems 1961 was the beginning changeover year) (and this must have been an option) (although FORD offered self-adjusters on the 57 MERC and 1958 EDSEL - why not BIRD?) individual parts have to be sourced to retro-fit. In your case, 61/63 BIRD (IMO). (BTW- I have saved takeoff parts in a coffee can for years).

Ray did a nice job and maybe he can explain what all he had to do to arrive at his setup.

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...1&d=1348029157

My solution (and this is open to opinion and debate) is to simply retrofit parts from a later car.

You can see from the illustrations below, each retracting spring is different and there is additional hardware one will need to come by. One would need a BENDIX/RAYBESTOS/WAGNER Vendor Parts Book to arrive @ everything needed.

Rear Drum Brake Asm Detail-

http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/9...rum_brakes.jpg

Frt/RR Drum Brake Asm Ill-

http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/9...rear_brake.jpg

MPC 2035-

http://squarebirds.org/Brakes/1963Br...urnSprings.jpg

Last edited by KULTULZ : 09-20-2012 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Correct Illustrations
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  #18  
Old 09-20-2012, 05:22 AM
KULTULZ
 
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On the self-adjuster star wheels not aligning with the opening in the backing plate for adjustment, it seems to the original star wheels were RH thread. The self-adjusters are RH and LH and throws the star-adjuster off somewhat on one side. The difference is the early backing plate was not designed to allow for adjustment of the self-adjusted star wheels. The solution is to modify the opening or possibly use a later backing plate (IMO).

Ray, can you get a spoon into the one offset star to adjust the brakes?
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  #19  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:46 AM
NYsquarebird58 NYsquarebird58 is offline
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Gary, thanks for spending time on this.

Here are all the parts that came with my self adjuster kit. If I'm understanding correctly, I believe I am only missing one spring, correct?
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  #20  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:14 AM
KULTULZ
 
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No, the upper retracting springs will also be different.

You need (IMO) to use the complete later BIRD (FORD) setup (except shoes) to arrive at the proper setup. The springs will have different tensions and the secondary spring will be of a smaller wire dia to fit within the cable guide.

The shoes (presently on car) will most likely be of later design (necessary number and positioning of hardware holes) due to earlier shoes being superseded by later design in the rebuilding process.

I am not saying the earlier style springs will not work but both designs are calibrated to each install.

I am waiting for other comments (Ray - Dave) before proceeding. It it were me, I would source the later springs and use those. I can give you FORD PN and you can source from there.

Be advised that to keep the self-adjusting feature working properly, initial adjustment is critical and the brakes should be cleaned, lubricated and manually adjusted annually. They are subject to freezing and will either not adjust properly or over adjust.

Is this four wheel drum or disc/drum?
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