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Go Back   Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum > 1958 To 1960 Thunderbirds - General Technical Discussion > 1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion
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View Poll Results: Are you having trouble finding performance suspension parts?
yes 4 66.67%
no 2 33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 07-20-2012, 10:39 AM
Superspy Matt Helm Superspy Matt Helm is offline
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Default Unleaded Gas

This is for Dave who said people run their engines rich instead of updating valves/Seats for unleaded gas: Running the engine rich will carbon up your valves and combustion chambers. If you don't want to update your heads or replace them with Aluminum heads to run pump gas it would be better to use the lead substitute products instead of messing with the mixture to avoid knocking. That is my gut instinct. I really think you would be better off with lead additive than carboning up your valves and combustion chambers. Just a thought and best of luck!
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2012, 12:20 PM
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tbird430 tbird430 is offline
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Lightbulb

Another thing, 1960 "racing technology" is CONSIDERABLY different by today's standards in the industry.

You have to "pay to play"....

-Jon in TX.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2012, 05:15 PM
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Jeff, I'm all about 'performance', I'm just not about, putting good money after bad.

I love aluminum FE heads, but Edelbrock is the only supplier we can find, and their heads will not work on a stock Squarebird engine. I love aluminum intake manifolds; we all know how much a cast iron FE intake weighs. I love true roller timing chains and roller cams, but they are simply not available for stock Squarebird engines. In the world of performance, 600-lbs is ginormous, and the quest for 14.7:1 air-to-fuel ratio is something carburetors rarely meet. So, better to run a little rich than suffer piston damage from running lean. This could go on forever...

We performance-minded Ford guys owe an awful lot to the Mustang because it brought cheap ponies and a lot of availability to our craft. Even if you hate the looks of the car, Ford still sells new and modern performance parts that go way beyond the confines of FE technology. Do you like EFI? How about a real supercharger... Me too, and across the counter at FordRacing.com. They converted the 351W onto a 427, and made it cough up 700-hp using all light weight aluminum. Unleaded gas and modern oils are standard venue. Bob Taska would have been very proud to have one of these in his driver, God rest his soul.

If you want 'fast' get a Shelby Cobra. I've never seen or heard of a Thunderbird beating one. In the mean time, appreciate and enjoy your Squarebird for what it is truly intended to be. The more you irreversibly hack into it, the more it will lose value. - Dave
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2012, 08:51 PM
Superspy Matt Helm Superspy Matt Helm is offline
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Dave, where do you get this misinformation. "Edelbrock" is "the" supplier of aluminum fe heads. "Blue Thunder" makes a better aluminum FE head but it is much more expensive and requires a lot more head work out of the box. You can find Edelbrock aluminum heads on e-bay for god sake for any FE including the 352 also the Edelbrock performer intake so what the heck are you smoking? Cheap aluminum heads and intakes are synonimous with Fe engines now adays. And you can't turn a 351 W small block into a 427 side oiler cross bolted mains big block, duh! You could bore the 351 out and get a stroker crank but the block simply would never be able to handle 700 hp, it would blow apart. Keep in mind that the horespower potential of an engine has an aweful lot to do with whether the cylinder block could handle 700 hp unless you like having $12,000 firecrackers. This is the best time in the las 40 years to be building an fe engine and that is no exageration. Preformance parts everywhere and remember the interchangability of many fe parts across the entire family of engines including the 352. Why evan waste your time with cast iron cobrajet heads when a $700 Edelbrock aluminum head is superior and lighter right out of the box than evan a substantially reworked "stock" cobrajet head. Anyway again, why are you talking about engines? All I wanted was information on performance suspension suppliers not rediculous clap trap that is so wrong it's not evan worth refuting. By the way, you can rest easy because I found a supplier today it is the "Fatman" or better known as "Fat Man Fabrications" "www.fatmanfab.com . They make 3" drop spindles that are far superior in quality to the original spindles and Tubular control arms upper and lower. I haven't physically talked to the Fatman yet but I will. My bird will fly as she was meant to, I'll leave the sailing to you and your "Luxery" cohorts.
Best of Luck!
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  #15  
Old 07-21-2012, 01:21 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superspy Matt Helm View Post
Dave, where do you get this misinformation. "Edelbrock" is "the" supplier of aluminum fe heads. "Blue Thunder" makes a better aluminum FE head but it is much more expensive and requires a lot more head work out of the box. You can find Edelbrock aluminum heads on e-bay for god sake for any FE including the 352 also the Edelbrock performer intake so what the heck are you smoking? Cheap aluminum heads and intakes are synonimous with Fe engines now adays. And you can't turn a 351 W small block into a 427 side oiler cross bolted mains big block, duh!..
Welcome to 2012. Yes, my information is absolutely correct and current. Edelbrock does NOT make an aluminum head that fits Squarebirds because their valves interfere with the cylinder walls. They DO make heads for the 390 and up but unfortunately 390ís didnít debut until 1961. Look it up.

Remember, we are looking for Edelbrock aluminum heads that bolt on out of the box for a 352. If you have a real Edelbrock part number, please let us know.

Ford Racing offers this 351-based 427 as an aluminum crate engineÖ CLICK HERE
Yes, it has splayed 4-bolt, steel billet main caps on 2,3 and 4 with 2-bolt caps on #1 & 5 caps. I have pressed this block over my head as it only weighs 110-lbs. It also accepts SBF timing chain sets and water pumps.

I hope Fat Man has what you need. Years ago I tried them for parts for my '55, but they just weren't 'there' yet. They did have a spindle that was very similar to the stock Granada/Mustang and one that was lower by 2". Also, let us know who offers (bolt on) power rack and pinion steering for Squarebirds. Good luck. - Dave
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  #16  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:00 AM
Superspy Matt Helm Superspy Matt Helm is offline
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Default

Wow Dave! Are you two different people? You go from quote:"The more you irreversibly hack into it, the more it will lose value. - Dave" to asking me where you can get a "bolt on rack and pinion" ???? Quote:"Also, let us know who offers (bolt on) power rack and pinion steering for Squarebirds. Good luck. - Dave " What the Heck? Again what is the point to refuting your nonsense? I guess the big question is: If you actually have a thunderbird with a 352 in it and you run it "rich" to avoid detination and you are so apparently well versed in hot rodding ford fe's all of a sudden and have done all kinds of expensive projects, and this is a very relavent question, why can't you simply pull the two cylinder heads off your T-bird, take them to the machine shop and have the guy update the heads with valves and seats so you don't carbon up your valves and combustion chambers for a couple hundred bucks? That will actually add value to your t-bird. And about the 351W to 427 thing. Now we are talking about a specially engineered race block? I guess you figured out I was right that you can't just take a 351w small block and magically turn it into a 427, the block simply was not designed to handle 700 hp. Anyway, what is the point? You want to stick a small block in a big block car? If you are going to the expense of a small block 351w race block, why not just get a Genesis or Dove real live big block 427 side oiler cross bolted mains extravaganza for $3500? It bolts right in. Your small block nightmare would require all kinds of conversion crap and fitment issues, DUH! And just so you know, I DON'T like superchargers and turbochargers their power curve climbs too fast and its easy to spin tires and lose traction, Not good if you are trying to win a race on the street. I much prefer a normally asperated torque and horsepower curve. In other words given the choice I would rather have the normally asperated 600 hp engine rather than the Turbocharged or nitroused 600 hp engine. But that's just me. Again what does all this have to do with helping me find performance suspension parts which was my original request for this thread. If you don't have any suggestions why are you even involved in this thread and persisting in taking it in other directions?
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  #17  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:29 AM
Jimz Bird Jimz Bird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superspy Matt Helm View Post
Wow Dave! Are you two different people?
Actually, I think Dave is more than just two guys. He, as many others, wear many different hats depending on the discussion.

Most folks here, whether "purist" or "rat-rodder" or somewhere in between input where we can. Ultimately though, it is your Bird and feel free to do what you want with it and keep us posted. We do like to see all the unique things that are done and all the tips people come up with.

You have some good thoughts there so it will be interesting to see how your project works out for you.
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2012, 08:29 PM
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Maybe you should just visit carsbycarl.com and drop a nasty 385-series engine into your car.

It will fit.

You will need the "snakebite" crate engine, if you want to avoid cutting a hole in the hood. (Torker II intake is not very tall) 9500 bucks. I'm saving my pennies.

There are guys on 460ford.com running 12's with GIANT early 70's Ford LTDs and such.

Check it out.
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  #19  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:14 PM
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I hope the dialog didn't scare you away. In my view these cars weren't made to be performers, meaning tight handling or pure speed for that matter. They were made to go well and ride well.

That certainly could be changed, but I don't think there are enough owners that want to change it (at least dramatically) for there to be a market for the parts. You can get an HD sway bar and an add on rear sway bar and better shocks, but that's about it, as far as I know.

Of course if you want speed, that's a bit easier as long as you don't want to turn much without slowing down.

I hope you are successful in finding what you want and stick around to tell us how you did it. We need everyone here from the purists to the all out customizers.
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:20 AM
63-4drpost 63-4drpost is offline
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Thumbs up Lincoln LS suspension

I own a 2000 Lincoln LS, and it is a great handling car. I think a lot of hot-rodders are missing the boat on this car. It has aluminum control arms, independent rear axle,etc. Do some measuring and figure it out. The squarebirds have a very low center of gravity , and will handle as good as ANY 3700# car around.
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