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  #1  
Old 06-12-2012, 05:30 AM
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Default Master Cylinder upgrade?

Hello everybody, I want your opinion on this ebay auction, please. Do you think it might work in a 1960 tbird with the air conditioning? I'm worried about the AC box. I emailed the seller and he said it could provide me 4 wheel brake drum master cylinder.....


http://www.ebay.com/itm/270556931229...WAX:IT&vxp=mtr
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:02 AM
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I am almost certain that is the Ford Galaxie replacement/conversion bracket - it looks very similar to the one I tried when I was converting to discs years ago.

The hood clearance is close because it lifts the booster so high. Seems I was going to have to drill new holes to mount it to the firewall or remove the captive bolts and install longer ones. This was to make it fit low enough in the compartment to clear the hood and not hit the valve cover. I believe to make it fit I was going to have to install the bottom mounting bolts in the top holes of the bracket and then drill new bottom holes - but it's been 10 years or so since I tried it. I was lucky to have a shop about 10 miles away that carried one of those brackets and loaned it to me to try - a bit hard to come by in Italy I would guess. Although shipping would be expensive you should be sure you can return it for a full refund if you decide to try it.

Also when I was looking at this bracket it was prior to my adding the evaporator box for the A/C but the plan was to add A/C so I believe I was taking that in to account. I think you will have more trouble with it hitting the valve cover or hood than the A/C box.

If you already have the under dash booster I think this fellow can rebuild it for you at about the same price as the replacement.

http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/

Kelsey Hays 5" Bellows $155.00
(T-Bird/Ford/Buick/Jag)

Good luck on your project,
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:30 AM
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Hello Eric and thank you for your clear explanation. I saw that Larry sell the under dash booster at a decent price even if the core is quite expensive. Your link is even cheaper but I fear to send my unit from Italy ...it can go lost and then I wonder if it will be stopped by the U.S. customs.

Of ebay solution I liked the idea of ​​security given by the double line. But I would not spend about $400 and find something that can not fix my car. At most I could ask the seller if I can bring it back if it does not fix as long as In August I will be vacationing in California. The AC box is actually a big deal being still thicker than the valve cover and it is the thing that worries me more ... I hoped the bracket in the picture was enough to make it work
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:44 AM
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While it may clear the evaporator box, it will probably hit the valve covers.
We have done extensive threads in this forum on ways to solve this problem.
Howard Prout designed a completely new bracket that raised the booster and M/C five inches and extended it five inches. Several of our members have built and used this design and it works well. See Post 285 on the following link for the bracket design: http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...ht=disc+brakes

I on the other hand have tall aluminum valve covers and needed to move everything closer to the fender for clearance. So I designed and built a mounting plate that would rotate an original Bendix bracket with a Jeep extender bracket 30 degrees. This moves everything to the side several inches, rather than up. I believe the bracket on Ebay might need to be rotated to fit. See this link for details: http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...ad.php?t=12968

Last edited by lawyercalif : 06-12-2012 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:25 PM
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Lawyercalif, thank you for your advice but I'm not able to build the bracket myself and I hoped in something already done. I understand it will need some adjustment but here mechanics are very expensive so I hoped in a kit or something easier than a totally "do it yourself" solution...

The "Bronco" idea seems good but does it fix a Squarebird firewall with AC or it is a nightmare too? And does it come with drum/drum MC?
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:48 PM
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I wish there were an easy answer.

Booster Dewy will sell a rebuilt booster without a core. I think the charge for my stock under the hood bendix booster was $100. I wanted to keep my original booster as well.

Core Policy
$25-100 Standard core charge
$100 - $500 Rare core charge


Splitting the system is a good idea for safety. I did mine when I converted to discs. You will need to do some work at the junction block on the frame under the steering box where it is all tied together but not a big deal

I made my own bracket that bolts to the stock firewall bolts and stock booster holes. I only moved my booster out 1 3/4 inches (but should have moved it up a bit as well). Moving it out only made it easier to extend the pedal bracket 1 3/4 inches. Very close to the valve covers and A/C box but it works great. Different from yours though because I started with the stock non A/C car having an under the hood bendix booster. You will notice also that Booster Dewy changed the face of my booster to accept a 2 stud style master cyl. That was an additional charge ($50 I think). Many of the later master cyls have only 2 mounting bolt holes so be sure to check that.














Eric
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:40 PM
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I think the stock brake system on squarebirds is terrible because it is undersized for the car. Drum brakes are much harder to control because they pull, fade, retain water (forever), and they are dangerous when pulling a trailer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnybob View Post
Hello everybody, I want your opinion on this ebay auction, please...
I don't like the price, I am not too fond of the seller because he has two 'negative' feedbacks with both buyers complaining he does not communicate.

This setup may work for a restorer with some fabrication skills and proper tools. The firewall bracket, 8" 2-stage booster, and dual M/C look ok but you also need a combination proportioning valve for use with a split system.

I always suggest squarebird owners retrofit with disk brakes because the original power drum system is so bad. Disk brakes will make your 1960 Thunderbird stop like a modern car. Several of our members have done this change, successfully. In your case, you need a good brake mechanic to custom-fit the components to make it work. Part of this job is re-plumbing your car with 3/16" brake pipe and inverted flare fittings. - Dave Dare
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:29 AM
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@Eric: Thanks for your pics . It 's exactly what I would do on my tbird and I was hoping there was already a kit to do so. Could you could build another one and how much would cost, please?

@Dave: About the valve. If I will use a Drum/drum master I will not need it.. Am I right? And yes, going to front disc brakes would surely be the best option. I saw that there is a kit in Larry's catalogue. But what I understand is wheels need to be changed because ventilation and space problems. I saw that people with disc brakes usually uses 15" wheels and I can't do that because in Italy we can't change the tire/wheel size (they are written on registration card).
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:22 PM
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Default Master Cylinder upgrade?

Sunnybob, from what you said below, it looks like you are stuck with 14" rims... However, the 14" rims you have on that car, if they are the original OEM rims that came on the car from the factory, are not going to work for a disk brake conversion... Those of us who decided to not buy new 15" tires and rims (because, in my case, my tires are pretty new) had to find 14" rims off of other Ford cars that were disc brake equipped when they left the factory. The 14" OEM rims will not allow you to put disc brakes in them. Also, the rims need to be vented. As you said, because of ventilation and space problems with the OEM rims, it looks like if you wanted to go the 14" disc brake route, you are going to have to find some 14" disc brake ready rims off a Ford car there, and that might be hard to do in your country.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:34 PM
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I think Ray forgot to mention that he has disk brakes on his Squarebird WITH 14" wheels. 14" wheels allow original hubcaps to fit. There is NO problem with venting or brake fade (right, Ray?).

Ray, tell the man how well your disk brakes work...

Sunnybob, when you separate your front and rear systems by using a dual master cylinder, there needs to be a device with a piston that can 'normalize' pressure. Otherwise think about it, if the fronts are out of adjustment but the rears come in first, the pedal will stop when the rears engage and the fronts will never engage (even though they have no line pressure). The same happens the opposite way.

A combination proportioning valve uses a piston BETWEEN the front and the rear systems. It also does much more: It meters, so the rears come in first, then it proportions (in your case 1:1 with drum/drum or disk/disk - it's the same valve), and it shuts off the ruptured side if you get a leak, so your M/C doesn't run out of fluid. When the piston shuts off one side, the valve grounds an electrical contact so you can use a dash warning light. - Dave
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 06-13-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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