This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 12-29-2011, 04:34 PM
shortysbreath shortysbreath is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 21 2011
Posts: 14
shortysbreath is on a distinguished road
Default plastic piece, ignition switch

Just installed new petronix coil to go with petronix ignition. Wired coil directly to ignition switch bypassing resistor wire. Just like rebuilding a carb, in the process of putting ignition switch back in, I have a plastic sleeve, tapered on the inside on one end, which I'm guessing is an insulator?

Couldn't get the ignition to scrunch in so I could twist the plate that attaches it, so I left the plastic piece out and switch pushed right in. Car started immediately but it seems to start now when I take the pressure of key in start position.

I'm presuming the plastic part is in there for a reason. Does anyone know what that reason is, and, does the tapered/beveled end face in toward the switch or out?

Thanks

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-29-2011, 04:58 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,881
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

The only plastic piece is the bezel that has the four key positions. Is that the piece that you left out? I've seen them break and the round piece that goes over the switch comes off. It should be all one piece and go in from the front of the instrument panel.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:52 PM
shortysbreath shortysbreath is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 21 2011
Posts: 14
shortysbreath is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
The only plastic piece is the bezel that has the four key positions. Is that the piece that you left out? I've seen them break and the round piece that goes over the switch comes off. It should be all one piece and go in from the front of the instrument panel.
The piece I'm talking about is round, clear plastic, with a notch in one end. It fits over the switch. It was not attached to the 4 way chromed acc/off/on/start bezel. I glued it back together where it busted. Is it an insulator?

When I compressed the ignition back together, the car started right away, but sort of after I hit start. It did the same thing a year ago. Would start not when I turned the key to start but immediately after I released it from crank postion. I changed the starter relay and I think that fixed it. I noticed the starter relay and the batt cable seem to be getting very hot just after a short interval of cranking.

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:27 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,881
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

It's not really an insulator. It's a spacer to keep the ignition switch from moving around too much. If it cranks anywhere but in the start position either the ignition switch is defective or it is wired incorrectly. Make sure you have a heavy enough wire to the starter or it will get too hot. If it still gets hot it could be the starter breaking down.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-30-2011, 09:51 AM
shortysbreath shortysbreath is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 21 2011
Posts: 14
shortysbreath is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
It's not really an insulator. It's a spacer to keep the ignition switch from moving around too much. If it cranks anywhere but in the start position either the ignition switch is defective or it is wired incorrectly. Make sure you have a heavy enough wire to the starter or it will get too hot. If it still gets hot it could be the starter breaking down.
It cranks only in the start position, but it seems to start when I release pressure off key in start position if that makes any sense. It did this once before. I installed a new starter relay and I think that fixed it. But I'm not sure.

The positive cable from the battery to the relay is the one getting hot. The ignition switch is new.

Thanks for the tips. When I get it all working right, maybe I'll teach a community college course on squarebird electrics.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-30-2011, 12:39 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,163
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortysbreath View Post
It cranks only in the start position, but it seems to start when I release pressure off key in start position... ...I installed a new starter relay and I think that fixed it... ...The ignition switch is new...
Here's a picture of your ignition switch:

There are NO connections to ground and it is not insulated from ground.

If you changed the switch, what did you get? Your new Key Switch should be EXACTLY like the original and all your dash parts should be re-used.

Electrically, when you turn the key to START, the "S" terminal and the "IGN" terminals on the Key Switch should have continuity (they are connected). When you release the key, "S" should be dead, but "IGN" is sustained with 12-volts.

Another problem area is with your Starter Relay. What did you get? Your new Starter Relay should have FOUR connections; two (for Batt & Starter motor), a skinny one for the start circuit (S), and another skinny connection for the ballast resistor cutout (I).

Simply running a wire to the Key Switch "IGN" post for your Pertronix is only half the story. You also need to connect to the aforementioned (I) post on your Starter Relay. I have seen aftermarket systems that include a diode to prevent backfeed, but you shouldn't need a diode.

Do you have a Shop Manual? If not, get one. I strongly urge you to become a paid member here, so you can post pictures. Other benefits come with a membership as well.

Hope this helps. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-30-2011, 12:55 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,163
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortysbreath View Post
The positive cable from the battery to the relay is the one getting hot...
This happens with excessive current draw for the size wire you are using.

Most owners never check brushes either in their starter motors or in their generators. They run their motors until failure, and simply buy new or rebuilt.

Do you know how much brush sets cost? Seven bucks.

Pull your starter motor and check your silica bronze brushes. If they are short, they are ok. If the brush holder is close to the commutator, change brushes. Same with your generator (and alternator). These brushes are carbon. You can save a very expensive ordeal with just a few bucks of prevention. BTW, while you have it out, clean the inside. Those little pieces of brush have nowhere to go and are highly conductive. Clean the inside and lube the bearings. This should lighten the current draw and keep your wires cooler. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-30-2011, 07:04 PM
shortysbreath shortysbreath is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 21 2011
Posts: 14
shortysbreath is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
This happens with excessive current draw for the size wire you are using.

Most owners never check brushes either in their starter motors or in their generators. They run their motors until failure, and simply buy new or rebuilt.

Do you know how much brush sets cost? Seven bucks.

Pull your starter motor and check your silica bronze brushes. If they are short, they are ok. If the brush holder is close to the commutator, change brushes. Same with your generator (and alternator). These brushes are carbon. You can save a very expensive ordeal with just a few bucks of prevention. BTW, while you have it out, clean the inside. Those little pieces of brush have nowhere to go and are highly conductive. Clean the inside and lube the bearings. This should lighten the current draw and keep your wires cooler. - Dave
Thanks. That would explain the hot cable. I'll do that and let you know what I find.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-30-2011, 07:12 PM
shortysbreath shortysbreath is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 21 2011
Posts: 14
shortysbreath is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
Here's a picture of your ignition switch:

There are NO connections to ground and it is not insulated from ground.

If you changed the switch, what did you get? Your new Key Switch should be EXACTLY like the original and all your dash parts should be re-used.

Electrically, when you turn the key to START, the "S" terminal and the "IGN" terminals on the Key Switch should have continuity (they are connected). When you release the key, "S" should be dead, but "IGN" is sustained with 12-volts.

Another problem area is with your Starter Relay. What did you get? Your new Starter Relay should have FOUR connections; two (for Batt & Starter motor), a skinny one for the start circuit (S), and another skinny connection for the ballast resistor cutout (I).

Simply running a wire to the Key Switch "IGN" post for your Pertronix is only half the story. You also need to connect to the aforementioned (I) post on your Starter Relay. I have seen aftermarket systems that include a diode to prevent backfeed, but you shouldn't need a diode.

Do you have a Shop Manual? If not, get one. I strongly urge you to become a paid member here, so you can post pictures. Other benefits come with a membership as well.

Hope this helps. - Dave
Thanks Dave. This site is a gold mine.

I don't have a ballast resistor. There was a resistor wire, but I bypassed it according to Petronix coil instructions and rep I talked to. I'll check the wiring on the starter relay tomorrow.

I do have a manual. I'll check that again too.

I'd like top become a paid member. How do I do it?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-30-2011, 09:06 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,163
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Membership is only $20/ yr. See the button on the top/right "Donate to Site"? Click on that and follow the directions. Congratulations (in advance) for joining.
- Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:49 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.