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  #21  
Old 09-19-2006, 12:41 PM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: Rethought...

>>> This motor had the breather pipe pulled and the hole under
>>>the intake was plugged. Ring blowby was sucked out and
>>>reburned the blowby with the hose under the carb. The
>>>snorkle was brazed onto the valve cover and two small holes
>>>were torch cut through the valve cover into the hole in the
>>>snorkle. Then a PCV valve was added.
>
>Hmm...
>
>If the origional oil filler tube (and open emmissions oil
>fill cap) were removed, where did the crankcase draw fresh
>outside air?

The filler pipe is there. It has a tin shield that was open towards the fan. When the cap was in place on the filler pipe, the vent holes in the bottom of the cap acted as an air intake. In fact, whth the fan rotation there would have been a positive air pressure of air flow into the breather from air being pushed back by the fan.

My valley cover has also been modified with a 1/8 inch steel pipe nipple lead solidered (Not brazed) into the rear of in with a brass fitting on the othet end. The fitting was capped. Why? I do not know.
http://www.rhyner.com/ebay/valleycov...eycover01s.jpg

This has been replaced with one off a 1959 430. The vent cover between the fkywheel was never removed after the hole leading to it inside the valley was plugged. The breather pipe was gone though but the hole for it was still intact and unplugged. I bought a 58 Merc 383 for parts and used the breather pipe from that engine


>
>If no allowance for inlet air, the system would have sucked
>the engine oil out (a little at a time)(negative crankcase
>pressure).
>
>If they used the origional road draft system, the inlet air
>would have been unfiltered. Bet that was good on the
>rings... :-(

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  #22  
Old 09-19-2006, 02:37 PM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Confused

>J-BIRD wrote:

>>>Actually the mill is from a 1961 Lincoln. The 59 J motor is
>>>long gone. Around 62 there were PCV retrofit kits out there.
>>
>>> This motor had the breather pipe pulled and the hole under
>>>the intake was plugged. Ring blowby was sucked out and
>>>reburned the blowby with the hose under the carb. The
>>>snorkle was brazed onto the valve cover and two small holes
>>>were torch cut through the valve cover into the hole in the
>>>snorkle. Then a PCV valve was added.
>>

KULTULZ wrote:

>>AHA!
>>
>>So the oil filler pipe (front) was removed and plugged
>>(actually the plug from a late 462 can be used) and the tube
>>brazed to the rocker cover was also the oil fill?
>>
>>That explains a lot right there.

>J-BIRD wrote:

>No. The flll pipe is barely visable beneath the surge tank.
>

I don't understand J. First you said it was removed and then it is still there... :-(

>KULTULZ wrote:

>>Now, let me ask you another question J. You say the engine
>>is from a 61 LINC? Is it using the 1960 heads and intake?
>>What type of trans is behind the 61 block (bell pattern
>>differences between the years)?

>J-BIRD wrote:

>The transmission is from a 1959 Thunderbird according to the
>metal tag. The 430's from 58 to 61 are listed as
>interchangable.

The 430 engine saw a lot of changes for the 61 model year. The bell housing pattern is different. Are you sure you have a 1961 LINC engine and not possibly a 1960 LINC engine (2V)?

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  #23  
Old 09-19-2006, 07:55 PM
JBird JBird is offline
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Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: Confused

My mistake. The breather tube was removed from the engine when I got the car. It was located behind the oil pan. The hole that the breather connected to was plugged with a metal plug like a freeze plug inside the engine in the valley under the intake and under the valley cover. Then the PCV mod was done and the valve cover modified. Air then went into the engine down the oil fill pipe through the oil cap as fumes/blowby were drawn off the passenger side valve cover and pulled into the intake through a second spacer plate that was added under the carb and burned before being exhausted.

The whole system was a cobble job from square one. Mickey Mouse! The only thing I can say about it is IT SUCKED!

You had to modify the engine to the point of having to remove the air cleaner or finding a shallow replacement and eliminating the thermostat and heat collector shield on the dirver side exhaust manifold. Now that caused more pollution than anything by allowing the carb to run cold with the choke on until the entire engine got hot enough to allow the choke to open. The original air cleaner ised hot exhause heat to warm the carb quickly. It also used a 3-stage cooling system to warm the carb and intake first.

All Kalistan's garbage did was insure raw unburned gas went into the air whenever you drove around town on short trips. But hey... They felt good about trying. Air Resource Board... they need a board upside the head.

Next CARB (California Air Resources Board)invention. MTBE! Ahhhh gee we didn't know rain washed it from the air and carried it into the ground water table... but the air is cleaner and they felt better for trying.
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2006, 07:56 PM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: Confused

>>J-BIRD wrote:
>
>>>>Actually the mill is from a 1961 Lincoln. The 59 J motor is
>>>>long gone. Around 62 there were PCV retrofit kits out there.
>>>
>>>> This motor had the breather pipe pulled and the hole under
>>>>the intake was plugged. Ring blowby was sucked out and
>>>>reburned the blowby with the hose under the carb. The
>>>>snorkle was brazed onto the valve cover and two small holes
>>>>were torch cut through the valve cover into the hole in the
>>>>snorkle. Then a PCV valve was added.
>>>
>
>KULTULZ wrote:
>
>>>AHA!
>>>
>>>So the oil filler pipe (front) was removed and plugged
>>>(actually the plug from a late 462 can be used) and the tube
>>>brazed to the rocker cover was also the oil fill?
>>>
>>>That explains a lot right there.
>
>>J-BIRD wrote:
>
>>No. The flll pipe is barely visable beneath the surge tank.
>>
>
>I don't understand J. First you said it was removed and then
>it is still there... :-(
>
>>KULTULZ wrote:
>
>>>Now, let me ask you another question J. You say the engine
>>>is from a 61 LINC? Is it using the 1960 heads and intake?
>>>What type of trans is behind the 61 block (bell pattern
>>>differences between the years)?
>
>>J-BIRD wrote:
>
>>The transmission is from a 1959 Thunderbird according to the
>>metal tag. The 430's from 58 to 61 are listed as
>>interchangable.
>
>The 430 engine saw a lot of changes for the 61 model year.
>The bell housing pattern is different. Are you sure you have
>a 1961 LINC engine and not possibly a 1960 LINC engine (2V)?


You decide:

http://www.rhyner.com/59jbird/bellhousing.html
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  #25  
Old 09-19-2006, 10:36 PM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default See The Light...

>The engine was the same blue when I bought the car. The engine was >blue. T-Bird 430's were black. The water pump on the engine was >also blue and the pump had the wrong puleys for a 1959 T-Bird. The >A/C pulley on the water pump has the number C1VE-2884-A indicating >a 61 Lincoln. I didn't actually check the engine number because I >don't have any Lincoln books but the water pump paint exactly >matched the color on the engine and both match the color of the >paint on the inside flange of the bell housing in the above photo. >The older Lincoln's used green paint. If I get the engine number >for you can you check out the year or is this info good enough?

Both the engine and bell shown are 59/60 design. I do not have the early (pre-1960) cataloging to properly I.D. what you have but it is definitely not 1961. The A/C was most likely taken from a 1961 LINC.

The Date Code on the bell appears to be 8AN. Is this correct? Hard to make out with these old eyes. Let me have any casting I.D. Nos. you have on the block also.

The 1958 LINC engine was GREEN. I believe it went BLACK for 59/60. So someone must have painted it.


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  #26  
Old 09-19-2006, 10:50 PM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Un Confused

>My mistake. The breather tube was removed from the engine
>when I got the car. It was located behind the oil pan. The
>hole that the breather connected to was plugged with a metal
>plug like a freeze plug inside the engine in the valley
>under the intake and under the valley cover. Then the PCV
>mod was done and the valve cover modified. Air then went
>into the engine down the oil fill pipe through the oil cap
>as fumes/blowby were drawn off the passenger side valve
>cover and pulled into the intake through a second spacer
>plate that was added under the carb and burned before being
>exhausted.

OK. I am clear now. Thanks! I thought you were referring to the oil fill tube at the front of the engine.

Actually, this is the correct method to modify the 58/60 to the later 430 PCV System instead of using the Rube Goldberg modification kit, the valley pan (and associated hardware) from a 61/ would have led to a properly designed PCV System.

It appears you have a many years collection of non-stock modifying on the engine. You have really busted your butt to make it correct. It will be nice once finished... :)
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  #27  
Old 09-19-2006, 11:00 PM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: See The Light...

>>The engine was the same blue when I bought the car. The engine was >blue. T-Bird 430's were black. The water pump on the engine was >also blue and the pump had the wrong puleys for a 1959 T-Bird. The >A/C pulley on the water pump has the number C1VE-2884-A indicating >a 61 Lincoln. I didn't actually check the engine number because I >don't have any Lincoln books but the water pump paint exactly >matched the color on the engine and both match the color of the >paint on the inside flange of the bell housing in the above photo. >The older Lincoln's used green paint. If I get the engine number >for you can you check out the year or is this info good enough?
>
>Both the engine and bell shown are 59/60 design. I do not
>have the early (pre-1960) cataloging to properly I.D. what
>you have but it is definitely not 1961. The A/C was most
>likely taken from a 1961 LINC.
>
>The Date Code on the bell appears to be 8AN. Is this
>correct? Hard to make out with these old eyes. Let me have
>any casting I.D. Nos. you have on the block also.
>
>The 1958 LINC engine was GREEN. I believe it went BLACK for
>59/60. So someone must have painted it.

Yup it's 8AN Then it's the bell that came with the car. The T-Bird has or had a 1958 Lincoln engine. The J-Bird was built in Dec of 1958 (24M Date) so that fits.

The blue paint is wrong. The birds had black not blue engines and there was no black on or under the blue.

The blue water pump with C1VE which is definatly 1961 Lincoln and an exact color match to the engine and it also looked like the bolts were never taken loose.

You might be correct on the A/C compressor. The dual "A" belt clutch isn't original and neither is the mount that was under it.

http://www.rhyner.com/ebay/bracket/MOUNT02.JPG
http://www.rhyner.com/ebay/bracket/MOUNT01.JPG

I can get the SN off the engine if that helps to ID it. BTW, I had that engine repainted black.


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  #28  
Old 09-19-2006, 11:56 PM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: See The Light...

The block casting numbers are:

7BE:1
5750416
8
DIF
4 4

The SN stamps read:
in 1/4" 43532 ER
in 1/8" 4-7BO1

Thanks,

J-Bird
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  #29  
Old 09-20-2006, 12:21 AM
430 sunroof 430 sunroof is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 16 2006
Posts: 4
430 sunroof
Default RE: calif smog setup

i'm sure these fittings are brazed, as evidenced by the pile of metal at the base of the fitting in the last photo. it looks to be easier to replace the valve cover and insert a tube in the short term so i can get her back on the road when the carburator gets back. i just cant find the time to start pulling a lot of parts, and then who knows what else i'll find in there. but tapping the holes and using plugs definately looks like a more appealing route when the time comes.thanks for all the help.
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2006, 03:52 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Solution(s)

>but tapping the holes and using plugs
>definately looks like a more appealing route when the time
>comes.

I think the plugs will go unnoticed (once installed and the intake painted)(should have been done in this fashion to begin with).

The intake will have to be removed to keep shavings from inside of the engine.

Have you ever seen the rubber block-off caps that come with some water pumps in case the car did not have a heater? Something like this can be used (it is just like a big nipple). If you can determine the size of the hose, I may have a couple of caps here.

>thanks for all the help.

You are quite welcome.

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