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  #11  
Old 09-18-2006, 08:30 PM
430 sunroof 430 sunroof is offline
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Join Date: Sep 16 2006
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430 sunroof
Default RE: calif smog setup

thanks for all your input re: the smog crap on my 430. looks like the bottom line is to replace the manifold and valve cover. in the meantime, does it look possible to run a tube between the two ell fittings and replace the valve cover, just to clean it up a bit in case the manifold is hard to find? p.s. the air here in southern calif is still brown.
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2006, 12:42 AM
byersmtrco's Avatar
byersmtrco byersmtrco is offline
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Posts: 1,610
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Default RE: calif smog setup

Alexander,

Will the early 60's 430 Linc/Merc setup work on his deal?
I've never seen the smog set up on a TB with a J motor, but "maybe" on one of the big Lincolns? I don't know? Does that sound right?
John
__________________
John Byers
1960 Convertible (Orig owner)
Pic of car with my son Justin (15 Y/O 6'1")
Poss 3rd Gen T/B owner
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2006, 01:42 AM
JBird JBird is offline
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Join Date: May 22 2005
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Default RE: calif smog setup

>Alexander,
>
>Will the early 60's 430 Linc/Merc setup work on his deal?
>I've never seen the smog set up on a TB with a J motor, but
>"maybe" on one of the big Lincolns? I don't know? Does that
>sound right?
>John


Actually the mill is from a 1961 Lincoln. The 59 J motor is long gone. Around 62 there were PCV retrofit kits out there. This motor had the breather pipe pulled and the hole under the intake was plugged. Ring blowby was sucked out and reburned the blowby with the hose under the carb. The snorkle was brazed onto the valve cover and two small holes were torch cut through the valve cover into the hole in the snorkle. Then a PCV valve was added.

My project car was a typical depression era car with parts from many cars. The AC system and condensor, compressor and lines are off a 1962 T-Bird. It's been a 1 year scavenger hunt buying parts. I'm very close now with all the original parts ready. Although the engine is still a 61 it's visual to an early 1959 T-Bird with a 58 Lincoln engine. The new valve covers are period correct with metal combs and rubber grommets on the wires.

The Autolite 4100 carb is now the 2853s Carter AFB with the correct air cleaner with the thermostat and heat shield. The (1961) C1VE Lincoln water pump with incorrect pulleys is now 1959 correct for an A/C car as is the compressor and clutch.

The compressor bracket, condensor, A/C linesm and sight glass are now original and I just got the correct brackets for the A/C lines from Concours.

The breather pipe is now back and correct with a professionally rebuilt 430 and tranny.

I have a ton of cash in this car just because I want it back the way if looked when new. I have new foam on the seats, new black leather covers, new door and kick panels, new dash pad, new carpet and headliner and all new NOS FoMoCo gages and speedo head. All the chrome work is done.

I'm welding new metal now. New floor pans too and the car is stripped bare and will soon be in primer so I can put the drive train back in and hook up all the lines.

New insulation now for thew firewall and another year will roll by before it's show ready.

Glass.... wire harnesses ... when will it ever end.

Then paint.

I'll be lucky if it's woth half of what is in it but it's not for sale. This gets passed on to my kids when I'm gone let them fight over it.
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  #14  
Old 09-19-2006, 03:31 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default RE: calif smog setup

>How do you shave an inch off the top of the air cleaner with
>that rig? You can hardly close the hood on a squarebird now
>and with give in the motor mounts... My hood scoop had a
>dimple from the all thread bolt and the air cleaner
>prevented the hood from closing so the car didn't have any
>air cleaner when I bought it.
>
>My 430 had that cali crap on it and it's all gone now and
>back original. The extra spacer under my carb sucked blowby
>into the intake from the passenger valve cover through a PCV
>valve.
>
>J-Bird
http://www.tbirdregistry.com/images/RN/rn26200e.jpg

Yours J-Bird appears to be the kit for the 352 installed the hard way (brazing of tube onto rocker cover). The use of a carb spacer raised the carb enough to interfere with the hood. It appears the 430 kit did not use that spacer but had two separate vacuum signals (to distribute the blow-by fumes somewhat evenly in the engine).

http://www.squarebirds.org/smog/smog-setup.jpg

I cannot believe a modification kit would call for the modification of a rocker cover in that fashion. A hole drilled yes, an intake tube, no.
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  #15  
Old 09-19-2006, 03:36 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default RE: calif smog setup

>thanks for all your input re: the smog crap on my 430. looks
>like the bottom line is to replace the manifold and valve
>cover. in the meantime, does it look possible to run a tube
>between the two ell fittings and replace the valve cover,
>just to clean it up a bit in case the manifold is hard to
>find? p.s. the air here in southern calif is still brown.

http://www.squarebirds.org/smog/smog-setup.jpg

Were the fittings into the intake tapped and threaded or were they brazed? If threaded, just remove and replace with pipe plugs. If brazed, a hose between the two fittings will allow the removal of the system.

A thought, if you remove the fittings if brazed, you can tap pipe threads into the holes to accept plugs. Most likely unoticeable and save you some money unless you come across an intake cheaply.

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  #16  
Old 09-19-2006, 03:43 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default RE: calif smog setup

>Actually the mill is from a 1961 Lincoln. The 59 J motor is
>long gone. Around 62 there were PCV retrofit kits out there.

> This motor had the breather pipe pulled and the hole under
>the intake was plugged. Ring blowby was sucked out and
>reburned the blowby with the hose under the carb. The
>snorkle was brazed onto the valve cover and two small holes
>were torch cut through the valve cover into the hole in the
>snorkle. Then a PCV valve was added.

AHA!

So the oil filler pipe (front) was removed and plugged (actually the plug from a late 462 can be used) and the tube brazed to the rocker cover was also the oil fill?

That explains a lot right there.

Now, let me ask you another question J. You say the engine is from a 61 LINC? Is it using the 1960 heads and intake? What type of trans is behind the 61 block (bell pattern differences between the years)?
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  #17  
Old 09-19-2006, 03:56 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Introduction of MEL PCV

>Alexander,
>
>Will the early 60's 430 Linc/Merc setup work on his deal?
>I've never seen the smog set up on a TB with a J motor, but
>"maybe" on one of the big Lincolns? I don't know? Does that
>sound right?

>John

The PCV System was introduced on the LINC 430 in 1961 (MERC reverted to FORD power). It required a valley pan upgrade, an emmissions filter in the pan and of course, the correct carb spacer and hose routing. The 61/62 was plumbed differently that the 63/65 as the earlier years were 2V.

The 58/60 used a road draft system and the actual road draft tube is unnoticeable is it is integral to the block and runs under the trans bell.

This is why it is more difficult to upgrade a 58/60 MEL to PCV than the FE.

There was a carb spacer used in the late sixties on FE intermediates that was only 1/4" thick but featured a normally sized vacuum signal inlet. If one can be found repo, modifying to an inconspicuous PCV system for the early MEL would not be that difficult and really help the engine.

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  #18  
Old 09-19-2006, 04:01 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Proper Installation of MEL Emmissions Kit

http://www.squarebirds.org/smog/smog-setup.jpg

If the vacuum signal had been tapped into the carburetor plenum (directly across from valve), it would have allowed more even distribution of crankcase fumes into the engine. Using the two inlet method as shown caused some cylinders to ingest more fumes than others, possibly leading to plug fouling on some cylinders and not others and a chance of a bad engine diagnosis (oil control) due to innacurate plug readings.
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  #19  
Old 09-19-2006, 04:08 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rethought...

>> This motor had the breather pipe pulled and the hole under
>>the intake was plugged. Ring blowby was sucked out and
>>reburned the blowby with the hose under the carb. The
>>snorkle was brazed onto the valve cover and two small holes
>>were torch cut through the valve cover into the hole in the
>>snorkle. Then a PCV valve was added.

Hmm...

If the origional oil filler tube (and open emmissions oil fill cap) were removed, where did the crankcase draw fresh outside air?

If no allowance for inlet air, the system would have sucked the engine oil out (a little at a time)(negative crankcase pressure).

If they used the origional road draft system, the inlet air would have been unfiltered. Bet that was good on the rings... :-(
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  #20  
Old 09-19-2006, 12:30 PM
JBird JBird is offline
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Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: calif smog setup

>>Actually the mill is from a 1961 Lincoln. The 59 J motor is
>>long gone. Around 62 there were PCV retrofit kits out there.
>
>> This motor had the breather pipe pulled and the hole under
>>the intake was plugged. Ring blowby was sucked out and
>>reburned the blowby with the hose under the carb. The
>>snorkle was brazed onto the valve cover and two small holes
>>were torch cut through the valve cover into the hole in the
>>snorkle. Then a PCV valve was added.
>
>AHA!
>
>So the oil filler pipe (front) was removed and plugged
>(actually the plug from a late 462 can be used) and the tube
>brazed to the rocker cover was also the oil fill?
>
>That explains a lot right there.

No. The flll pipe is barely visable beneath the surge tank.

>
>Now, let me ask you another question J. You say the engine
>is from a 61 LINC? Is it using the 1960 heads and intake?
>What type of trans is behind the 61 block (bell pattern
>differences between the years)?

The transmission is from a 1959 Thunderbird according to the metal tag. The 430's from 58 to 61 are listed as interchangable.

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