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  #101  
Old 08-01-2011, 06:42 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Well, I talked to the guys at ABSpowerbrakes. They said the one I sent back tested good, but they sent me another one just for my peace of mind. He also said it doesn't need any adjustments etc for the pedal and/or throw. We talked for a bit and all he could come up with was that my vacuum wasn't strong enough.
Can anyone give me some ideas how to increase my vacuum?

thx, Dave
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  #102  
Old 08-01-2011, 07:50 PM
Astrowing Astrowing is offline
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Suggestion:

A vacuum reserve canister captures an extra shot of vacuum from your engine for your power brakes. It is for cars equipped with big cams and power brakes. This unit approximately doubles the volume of vacuum available for your power brakes. It is recommended for cars with 14 inches of vacuum or less. The COMP CamsŪ Vacuum Canisters is made of spun aluminum, which eliminates the hazard of flaking rust particles contaminating the brake system and provides a 50% weight savings over the heavy steel cans of the past.

I think all modern cars have an extra canister in addition to the brake booster. I assume you are not using the original vacuum reservoir, but are running engine vacuum directly to the booster via a check valve.

There are other vacuum canisters out there, I just found Comp Cams when I first looked.
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  #103  
Old 08-01-2011, 11:11 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Thx for the idea Jim, I had already googled the subject and found what you said here so I reinstalled my original vacuum canister but it didn't do any better. If I turn off the engine, wait 20 minutes, and pull the hose off the booster I get a louder, longer whoosh sound so I know it's sealed well and helping. I called the local Ford dealer service center and they said 13.5 pounds at this altitude is about average. I've been thinking that maybe I could have a bad proportioning valve? I was thinking of removing it and installing the original splitter, and somehow plug the rear line off the M/C and see if I get any better power on the front discs??? In case the proportioning valve is restricting flow. Is that even feasible? Would I have to drain the fluid from the rear reservoir so it just compresses the air?

thx, Dave
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  #104  
Old 08-01-2011, 11:28 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Oh, i forgot to ask, are the original brake lines 3/16th inch?
- Dave
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  #105  
Old 08-02-2011, 05:15 AM
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davidmij, I can't believe this has gone over 100 posts over the same exact problem. Astrowing, myself, and others, have tried to help you but we are limited to our computers at home and your willingness to try our suggestions.

I am very happy you paid a Certified Mechanic for one hour. That guy actually saw your system first hand, and I examined everything you reported that he said. Then, instead of working with his findings, you sent the second unit back, and here we are back at post #11 with the original problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post
...If you remember, the only thing left to check was my new MC/ booster.
You reported something about, feeling each stage as you depressed the pedal. That should NOT happen. These tolerances should never be that sloppy.This is a 'measurement check' between the booster and the M/C pushrod. It does NOT require booster disassembly at all. What did you find?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post
...I took the car to my mechanic and he verified everything was installed and adjusted correctly. He said the only thing he can figure is that it doesn’t have enough throw??? However he didn't have enough time to take it all apart as I only paid him for one hour. He said I have a clear and clean manifold with plenty of vacuum (13.5 at 7000 ft altitude). Pressure at all 4 wheels...
Ok:
'Not enough throw,' (you have my suggestion)
'clear and clean vacuum.' (I never thought this was an issue, but you did)
'pressure at all four wheels.' How much brake line psi did he gauge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post
...it's still acting the same as before - no power, and I can't make the car skid no matter how hard I hit the pedal.
Yes, this is what you're working on. Your system is exactly like any modern disk/drum setup and should be easy to troubleshoot.



Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post
...Could it be the proportioning valve even though it doesn't have any adjustments? It's the same one Dave Dare posted a diagram of... ...Maybe I need to break it all down as Dave Dare described in page 7 of this thread, but I would think they would ship it ready to go...
I have learned, never take anything for granted. That's why I do my own troubleshooting.

You bought your proportioning valve from ABS. If it is the same as a Ford disk/drum prop valve, all the front ports are open to each other with NO restriction. That part works just like a tee. The rear brakes section tames down the pressure to your rear shoes. A common sign of a broken prop valve is when the back wheels lock up before the fronts come in. This is NOT your issue.

I have never seen your new prop valve, so I cannot verify the holes or machining. You can take it off and blow into the front end to see if all three ports are open to each other. Your problem does NOT sound like the prop valve is bad because you should still be able to lock up your front wheels.

Yes, your original brake line was one 3/16" tube that came from the M/C to a tee, which fed all four wheels... standard on all classic drum brake systems. Your new M/C has two 3/16" lines which offers twice the flow... standard on all dual M/C disk/drum systems, but modern cars use the equiv. metric standard.

Adding more vacuum tank never boosts your vacuum, but it offers more volume. That is like connecting two 8-volt batteries in parallel... they still produce 8-volts. Your new booster has enough volume to brake about three times with the engine off. Adding more 'can' allows you to brake about five times (at the same foot pressure) with the engine off.

I have helped you purchase the Scarebird brackets, offered my troubleshooting suggestions, and given as much info as I can. With that, I am done with this thread. Other Squarebird members successfully use the ABS setup (for years) so we know it works well. - Dave Dare
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 08-02-2011 at 05:34 AM.
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  #106  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:04 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Wow, sorry Dave. I don't always convey in writing just exactly what I'm trying to say. Perhaps I should sue the Albuquerque school system. ;0)
My point about feeling the stages of the pedal "without any fluid in the thing" was to tell everyone that the pedal does travel free and fully without any binding. After filling and bleeding the brakes the pedal felt correct. I did post pictures of my proportioning valve, but I don't know how they work. I was just trying to eliminate parts that could be restricting flow - that's why I asked.
ABS told me that the "throw" should already be adjusted correctly from them. They doubted very strongly that I could have tried two different setups with that problem. You said, "Other Squarebird members successfully use the ABS setup (for years)". That's exactly why I'm using this forum. Hopefully if someone else received a M/C setup from ABS with the same problem they could help me. I'm pretty sure they would have spoke up if they had to remove the M/C and adjust the throw.
This car is just a hobby, and I only have time to work on it every couple of weeks, hence my troubleshooting and follow up with this thread is a bit sporadic.
I agree that you should be "done with this thread". It obviously aggravates and frustrates you that I'm not a mechanic and don't understand how all these things work. Being that I paid the sites registration fee I'll continue to use the help of anyone on this site that would like to provide any input to my endeavors. However I fully understand if you've reached a point where you've run out of patience. This isn't rocket science, I'll figure it out eventually.
regards, Dave J
PS: I'm not sure why you didn't PM me with your last note, it seems like you're taking all this a bit personally. I certainly hope you're not aiming to get others on this site to alienate me.
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  #107  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:16 PM
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jopizz jopizz is offline
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I'm glad simplyconnected spoke up about what's been happening about a lot of the threads on this site. It seems that the same two or three people are posting constantly about problems with their cars and totally ignoring whatever suggestions are made. It seems that there are a few people who use this site because they are too lazy to work a problem out in their head or too cheap to buy a shop manual and find the answer. They would rather make the rest of us do all the work. There's nothing more frustrating than taking the time to research a problem and the poster doesn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge it and say thank you or try what was suggested. Sorry for the rant.

John
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  #108  
Old 08-02-2011, 01:14 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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John, I purchased and own a shop manual for my car. Tell me where in that manual does it cover my brake set up?
Also, the ONLY suggestion from this thread that I have not tried "ignored" is taking the M/C off the booster and adjusting the throw. The manufacturer advised me NOT to mess with that as the part is warranted and I could void a warranty. They asked me to send it back instead.
Please show me the post where I haven't been grateful and said "thx" or "regards" to anyone?
Sorry if I offend you or one of your buddies, that was not my intention. I truly appreciate everyone's help, (especially Dave Dare) and definitely have gotten way more than my $20 worth. I truly hope one day I'll be able to help others too. Unfortunately I don't know as much as a professional mechanic.
If you have a problem with a few of the members posts I suggest you just ignore them - if that's not doable for you I suggest you take it up with the moderator, that's why the site has them.

regards, Dave Jones
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  #109  
Old 08-02-2011, 02:03 PM
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I don't think any of us will profess to be professional mechanics. The reason we're here is because we enjoy T-Birds and want to help others enjoy them too. None of us is getting paid to read or respond to these posts. The ones who have offered you suggestions are just using basic troubleshooting techniques that apply to any braking system. Every time someone uses non-standard systems and parts in our cars there needs to be a realization that it may or may not work. If you've taken it to a professional mechanic and he can't make it work then continually posting here and expecting one of us to fix it from our computers is not going to make it work either.

As for my rant I wasn't specifically talking about you but just responding to what simplyconnected said and adding my own slant.
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  #110  
Old 08-02-2011, 09:59 PM
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Dakota Boy Dakota Boy is offline
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Just an FYI---

When I completely re-plumbed my car's brakes last winter, I used a "Mity-Vac" to bleed the brakes....and I had to do all the wheels at least TWICE before I had a firm pedal action.

I'd probably still be messing around with those brakes, if I hadnt used that magical device.

My new master cylinder was "bench-bled" as per the instructions that came with it.

I cant offer you much else here, other than to say that entrapped air in a hydraulic system is absolutely the work of the devil himself.

Did you ever see that movie "Christine"?


ONE other thing... Perhaps that clutch/brake pedal setup (which was designed for the under-the-dash power booster) will never be compatible with an under-the-HOOD booster setup.

Last edited by Dakota Boy : 08-02-2011 at 10:02 PM.
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