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  #51  
Old 07-30-2006, 05:44 PM
tmjsong1aolcom tmjsong1aolcom is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

I posted a couple posts earlier that are incorrect. I reviewing the VTCI revision I made a mistake The A in second position should be decoded as November.

Heads 7A L deodes as 7 is 1957, A is November, L is day 11. As noted earlier the date code appears to be in the wrong place but as noted this is a solid lifter engine.

Intake 7A H 7 is 1957, A is November, H is day 8

Block embossment 1-7APO 1 is cleveland as noted, 7 is 1957, A is november, and P is day 14, with O being the inspector.

Engine Block looks like 78 Y or 79 Y should decode 7 as 1957, 8 or 9 aug or sept, and Y as day 21.

This puts this engine closer to the production of this bird but knowing what little evidence we have so far this engine was built to far in advance of the build date of the bird from the data plate. It appears that about 1 month prior to the build date of the bird would be about the max time the engine assembly date would be before the build date of the bird. Just a guidline.

From what has been documented, the only carb used on the birds was the autolite 4100. Exports are in ???

Steve Christ has a book out on big block fords that gives much engine decoding info and how to figure out what you have.

Fuz
58's&64's
Sun Prairie, Wi.
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  #52  
Old 07-30-2006, 06:03 PM
tmjsong1aolcom tmjsong1aolcom is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

Did a bit more review of the engine block casting number. I do not find the edc 6015 listed for thunderbirds. Need to find the steve christ book but right noe it eluding me.

Fuz
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  #53  
Old 07-30-2006, 09:24 PM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Date Codes

I was wondering where you got this FE early date code interpretation? MEL Division used a similiar system before Casting I.D. and date codes were changed in 1959 to the type most of us are more familiar with. The system was fully explained in a LINC-MERC TSB.

This is an earlier post from the MEL ENGINE FORUM;

http://www.motorhouse.org/%20Forum%2...16.09.0316.jpg

The ENGINE DATE CODE (date of casting) is explained in LINC/MERC 1958 Service Bulletin No. 8.

J4 94YY (The actual date code on the early MEL was on the left front skirt. The photo is showing the right side skirt)

The first character is the Foundry Plant...

I believe yours starts with the 4, not the J (not sure of it's meaning) and that would be Lima.

The second character is the Year (1959)...

The third character Month (April)

The fourth character DAY (24)

The fifth character Plant Inspector...

Was your source found in a restoration text or a TSB?


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  #54  
Old 07-30-2006, 09:36 PM
KULTULZ
 
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Default Block Casting I.D.

>Did a bit more review of the engine block casting number. I
>do not find the edc 6015 listed for thunderbirds. Need to
>find the steve christ book but right noe it eluding me.
>
>Fuz

This is interesting as there may possibly be two separate casting numbers if the engine was solid or hydraulic. Usually on a solid FE, FORD restricted the oil flow to the lifters by using plugs in the oil galleys.

Without the 58 MPC, it is going to be hard to determine the carb issue. Seeing as how the 58 BIRD was not introduced (I have read) until NOV 57, it may well be that the BIRD did not see a mechanical version. This may possibly be a 1958 FAIRLANE engine.

Still working on the carburetor... :)
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  #55  
Old 07-30-2006, 09:54 PM
tmjsong1aolcom tmjsong1aolcom is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

Reviewed the parts books and Ford interchange manual too see where the carb led 9603 is the base number for a spacer plate. Going thru the books the one you have equates to part number B8A-9603-B1. This numer is not listed in any of the parts books I have.

5750068 crosses to B8A-9510-F Parts book says new number 1958 A which is most of the ford line 352 engine 4/B identified by 5750068 or EDT-9510-D stamped on front face of air cleaner mounting flange replaced by B6A-9510-Q

Carburetor catalog symbol 72.

From this info it did not come on a bird which is consistant with Ford lit the bird engine only used the 4100 for the 352.

From all this info I would say your engine et all was a transplant from a standard ford car.

Sorry about the info.

Fuz
58's&64's
Sun Prairie, Wi.


PS the info was obtained from a up to june 1959 parts book with the pages dates revised june 1959.
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  #56  
Old 07-31-2006, 07:45 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default RE: Engine Identification

>From all this info I would say your engine et all was a
>transplant from a standard ford car.
>
>Sorry about the info.
>
>Fuz
>58's&64's
>Sun Prairie, Wi.
>
>
>PS the info was obtained from a up to june 1959 parts book
>with the pages dates revised june 1959.

Very good reference work done....

Alexander,

Is there a supreme judging reference on these BIRDS before this gentlemans' engine installation is condemed? :(

Now on the other hand, if the installation is not correct, I would think the engine by itself would be very desirable to someone.
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  #57  
Old 07-31-2006, 08:02 AM
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Alexander Alexander is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

I willl look through the Steve Christ book on big block Fords to see waht they have listed for the block shown here, but I think it only identifies the engine type, not what car line it was installed in.

I do agree, as a solid lifter FE engine, it is a valuable motor.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top
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Alexander
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1960 Golde Top
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  #58  
Old 07-31-2006, 09:39 AM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default RE: Engine Identification

>I willl look through the Steve Christ book on big block
>Fords to see waht they have listed for the block shown here,
>but I think it only identifies the engine type, not what car
>line it was installed in.
>
>I do agree, as a solid lifter FE engine, it is a valuable
>motor.
>
>Alexander
>1959 Hardtop
>1960 Golde Top

I had hoped you had a technical source (for judging, etc) that would tell if this early version engine was available in the very early 58 BIRD.

I have asked the question of when the design changeover was made on the FE Forum. Hopefully between your resource text and the pros over there, we can come to a definite conclusion before condemning this installation.

Whoever does have an early edition (49/59) of the FORD MPC, Basic Part No. 6010 (bare block) may give a clue as how many blocks there might have been and to which car lines installed.

I have to update my early catalogs... :(
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  #59  
Old 07-31-2006, 11:56 AM
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Alexander Alexander is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

A 352 solid lifter engine with a Carter carburetor is unknown up until now, so it would not be in any judging sheets. People could order cars special order back then and also they were not as strict as now with engine choices as they are now. Each engine did not need to be certified for each car as now. Conceivably, this engine may have been placed in production there was a shortage of hydraulic engines. Then again with the wide disparity of date of the engine with the production of this car, the engine may have been a transplant. Maybe the transplant even took place when the car was new. Hey, I have seen a 1959 T-Bird with Y-Block V8.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top
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  #60  
Old 07-31-2006, 12:18 PM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default THANX ALEXANDER!

I just hate to condemn the installation and all the while it might have been legal.

Did you take pictures of the Y-BLOCK installation? I bet that surprised you when you walked up on it... :)
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