This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 07-06-2006, 07:46 AM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default White Post Restorations

I have a 1-1/8 inch master cylinder in my 59 and the cylinder walls were pitted to the point it couldn't be rebuilt. The ONLY master cylinder I was able to find was a 1 inch DIA. and I wanted the 1-1/8th inch.

I finally fouind one but the core charge was 200 bucks plus another 175 for the M/C... steep.

The answer was White Post Restorations. For 175 they bead blast and paint with baked enamel that looks like new cast after they over-bored the cylinder out and pressed a brass sleeve into it and brought it back to stock bore.

They rebuilt it and pressure tested it and furnished me with a lifetime warrantee.

Good info if you are in the same boat I was.

http://www.whitepost.com/

They do wheel cylinders too.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-08-2006, 07:47 PM
Strange Strange is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 19 2006
Posts: 31
Strange
Default RE: White Post Restorations

JBird,

Thanks for the review. White Post is famous in the prewar car arena, but I've never known anyone that actually used them. For most things I've heard they are very expensive. I love the 1960 t-bird and I'm still looking for the right one, but one day I really want something from the 30's.

Cheers,
Strange Square
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-13-2006, 11:52 PM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: White Post Restorations

You wouldn't believe how nice my old pitted MC looks. New cap and all with a full test and lifetime warrantee. Cost? Less than the core charge on a 1-1/8th DIA MC for the bird which was 200 bucks added on to the 150 for the correct diameter piston in the correct MC. The MC is one of the first things you see when you open the hood and it has the piston diameter right in the casting.

The 1 inch DIA will work but it's not correct for my car with A/C and the Kelsey-Hayes booster under the dash to make room for the evaporator on the firewall.

The 1-1/8 dia has a shorter stroke than the 1" according to my service manual which probably has something to do with the NON-A/C under hood booster having a much larger diaphram diameter than my bellows type under the dash.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2006, 01:20 AM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: White Post Restorations

http://www.rhyner.com/59jbird/photos/MC.JPG

This is worth 1000 words.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2006, 07:45 AM
Alexander's Avatar
Alexander Alexander is offline
Webmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 30 2002
Posts: 3,338
Alexander is on a distinguished road
Default RE: White Post Restorations

Just make sure they use the right piston in the master cylinder.

I had a 1 1/8” master cylinder brass sleeved by White Post restorations in 1998. Initially after installing the very nice looking rebuilt master cylinder, the brake pedal would go to the floor, no matter how many times I tried to bleed the system. Upon disassembling this new master cylinder, my mechanic friend, Keith Piacente, found the cup in front of the piston was installed in the wrong direction (open en towards the back). When it was reinstalled in the master cylinder in the correct orientation, the brakes worked great. A problem developed when the car was driven about ten miles. The brake lights would come on and the pedal would feel harder. Once the car cooled, the problem disappeared. Once, I was in front of my home after a drive, and could not move the car even with motor revving because the brakes had completely locked up. I thought I had a problem with the brake pedal rod to master cylinder adjustment. I adjusted the pedal by turning the eccentric nut to have the 5/16 to 7/16" free travel as specified in the shop manual. I thought I had the problem solved. Much to my dismay I still had the same problem. After a few miles the pedal got hard, the brake lights went on, and if I drove it further would lock up again. The problem always resolved once the system cools.

I wanted to go to the ITC national meet in Millville on June 28,1998. While washing the car early that morning, I noticed a large soft bubble on my rear left tire. I am glad I noticed it before I had a blowout. I had a terrible time getting off some of the lug nuts, so I went to my mechanic friend, Keith, to have them air ratcheted off. I then was able to put on the spare tire.

Halfway on the way to Millville went my brakes started seizing up. My mechanic friend had honed the inside of the cylinder earlier this week to allow the piston to return to the rest position more freely. He thought it would solve my problem. But here I was in the middle of Jersey with the car all locked up, unable to move. The left rear brake was smoking and red-hot. That's probably why the last tire bubbled. I had no idea where I was, but I was lucky enough to make it to an open service station just off the New Jersey Turnpike. The mechanic at that shop backed off the star adjustment on the right front brake. This caused all the wheels to loosen. He refused to accept any payment for this service. There are still some nice people in the world! He advised me to return to New York, because he thought the problem was in the master cylinder, and felt it would happen again on this trip.

I reluctantly headed home. The brakes were tight but not locked by the time I arrived home. I removed the master cylinder, and fixed what I thought was the problem all along. The are two holes in the sleeve. The front port is called the compensating port and the rear is called the breather port. The front sleeve hole was only about 1/64" in the same alignment with the hole in the cast iron that was about 1/8" in diameter. I deduced that as the system became hotter the heat would constrict this tiny hole, preventing the heat expanded fluid from escaping from the brake lines back into the master cylinder. I drilled out he from hole using a Dremel tool to 3/16." I then rehoned the inside of the cylinder slightly to get rid of the burr on the hole from the drilling.

I took an hour drive, and so far had no problem. I was hoping then, I would make it to next year’s convention.

I thought I solved the problem when I enlarged the compensating port in the brass sleeved master cylinder. I had no problems driving through local streets for two hours straight on the next Friday. I really thought I had the problem licked. The next day I started a trip up to my parent's summer home in the Catskills, 100 miles from my home in Queens. After a half-hour on the NYS Thruway at 65 miles an hour the brake pedal again became rock hard. I made it to the next rest area. The wheel rims were red hot and the rear brake lights were on.

I thought I was stuck for sure. I went inside the rest stop, had a chocolate frozen yogurt and thought about the problem. How to relieve the excess pressure that has built up with the expanded fluid, without losing my brakes? I took a wrench from my small toolbox that I always carry in the trunk of the car, and loosened the head nut on the master cylinder. A small amount of fluid squirted out, but the brakes released. I had no further problems during the rest of the 2.5-hour trip!

Near my parent's house I stopped a garage sale. The man running it turned out to be an old retired mechanic. He had a Chilton's book on brake systems for 1950-59 cars. What an amazing coincidence that was! The book gave a great explanation of how master cylinders operate. I described my problem to the man. We figured that the cup inside the master cylinder must be blocking the compensating port preventing the heat expanded fluid from having a vent. I suspected that White Post Restorations must have used the wrong length piston in my master cylinder. In the book the author explains that the clearance between the front of the cup and the compensating port must be checked when rebuilding a master cylinder. I wish they had done this at the restoration shop!

When I examined the new master cylinder kit that I had also picked up from Bob’s Bird house, I noted that the piston was about .25 inch shorter than the one I pulled out of the malfunctioning master cylinder. When the fluid in the brake lines heated up it had no outlet through the compensating port blocked by the overly long piston, so the expanding fluid had no other relief except to expand in the slave cylinders thereby locking the brakes.

I sent the master cylinder back to White Post. I expected them to resleeve it again. I had worried that all the honing would have compromised the cylinder. They just replaced the inner components and tested it. I have had no problems with it since I put it back on the car.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top
__________________
Alexander
1959 Hard Top
1960 Golde Top
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2006, 10:33 AM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: White Post Restorations

That's good info and I will keep it in mind. Billy said they no longer resleeve these unless they rebuild and pressure test it. I'd have to assume your rebuild wasn't pressure testes or they certainly would have caught the problem. I removed the cap and the inside is wet with brake fluid that was drained for shipping. I also have 2 rebuild kits in 1-1/8 dia so if anybody needs one I can help you out.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-14-2006, 10:37 AM
JBird JBird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: May 22 2005
Posts: 432
JBird is on a distinguished road
Default RE: White Post Restorations

pressure testes...lol well I'm blind and it's early.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-14-2006, 07:20 PM
Strange Strange is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 19 2006
Posts: 31
Strange
Default RE: White Post Restorations

Alexander,

Whoa. Now that is a story and unfortunately a nightmare. I'll be interested in hearing JBird's experience. Hopefully they learned their lesson. I'd be careful about relying on the pressure test. I would have thought, prior to Alexander's story that they would have checked the bleed port, but they could have just capped the whole thing and then pumped it up to pressure and decided that there were no leaks. (not even maybe ones that should be there)

Cheers.
Strange Square
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:50 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.