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  #1  
Old 12-30-2010, 07:36 PM
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Default A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

For those who have seen the Welcoming comments in that Forum for Mark Mundorff ~ AVANCIER THUNDERBIRD, you will see that he has owned a '59 Tbird set up for racing. He has owned it since 1967 and has been trying to find out it's history prior to him purchasing it. Holman-Moody says it is not one of their cars that they received from the factory. Their website says they received 10 cars, but other accounts has it at 11 to 13. Mark and I have been having an email conversation back and forth and I asked for permission to post his comments in hopes that someone out there might know something about this Tbird so that we can nail down more of it's history. Here is what he has to say.

"My name is Mark Mundorff and I am one of the 20 or so charter members of the original VTCA out of Tulsa back in about 1972. Don Brix was the key person at that time if my memory serves me half way correctly. In the late 70’s, I sent a full set of all the original service bulletins from a local Ford dealer to Larry Seyfarth in Detroit. I don’t know what might have happened to all the stuff I sent to him like that? (My note: If anyone knows Larry Seyfarth, I would like to get in contact with him regarding the location of that complete set of original service documents!)

I just recently “rediscovered” your web site and I just recently rejoined the other larger club out of Wash state. I do think there is a very legitimate need and desire for a group that you are representing here for just the 58-60 T-birds. By the way, I have had mine since 1967. And maybe someone in this group will have some comments or insight into my mystery bird. No one else has in the many years and efforts I have made trying to discover where it came from and why.

In a nutshell, mine is a 59 T-bird…….430 engine……3 speed overdrive, no options at all on the car. 2 shocks per wheel, 15 inch tires, custom functional side vents into the engine compartment and 1 in the hood , radiused wheel wells in back, traction rods welded in on the rear axle, top speed 160+ mph with ease and stability. Bought in Omaha in 1967 with 30,000 miles on it. VIN Plate says had automatic trans and accessories. Was factory black then gold then red with white top as it is now. There is no sign of ever having had an automatic transmission. (My Note: So it left the factory with a VIN # and Data Plate showing what it was when it left there. That seems to indicate it was not one of the H&M Race Cars. I do not know if they left the factory with VIN #'s and Data Plates, but I make the assumption that they did, in order to control car production and status. I tried to contact someone at H&M but they are closed.)

The driver’s side sun visor has the word “AVANCIER” nicely hand lettered on it. From what I have been told, that is old world French meaning “ahead of its time” French language experts say most French would never use that word or know what it meant. The hood vent is on the passenger’s side and is professionally molded into the hood metal with a shallow trough running back to the windshield for no reason what so ever!

I have told and asked many people if they have any ideas……..speculation but nothing concrete. Omaha is where the 59 T-bird came from that almost won the 1st Daytona race. Rumor is that other T-birds came to Omaha without general knowledge of most people. Speculation is this was one Ford put together for racing from the factory itself. Holman and Moody says it is not one of theirs. When we bought it, we were told the sister to it was wrecked in a race. We were told there had been 11-13 of them originally. Holman and Moody said they only built 11 of them? (Note that the Holman-Moody website says 10!)

By mid racing season, one problem the T-birds had was uplift at the speeds they were capable of going. Ford was working on how to keep them down………..but very very little is ever written about that. This version, has no problems at 160 mph staying stable and on the ground, because of the very functional side vents very professionally cut in and directed to the engine compartment. Was it a Ford built test car for race development that got shipped to the car builders in Omaha? No one is left that seems to have any knowledge back then. Is it doomed to slip into history and forgotten? It is an absolutely beautifully built and finished car, every bit a show car that goes from 0-160+ from grocery store parking lot to race track with the loaf of bread and bottle of milk in the back seat.

Any thoughts or comments are welcome.

Mark Mundorff
Mapes Industries
Lincoln NE
68514 "

mmundorff@mapes.com

Since then comes additional comments from Mark.

"Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. You can use my name and address and email if you would like. That is fine with me. My guess is no one will know about it after trying for the last 10 yrs and the trail is growing colder all the time. One thing that is a really curious circumstantial item of interest but unverifiable is this. When we bought the car, I was 15. We farmed in central Nebr, about 150 miles west of Omaha. Dad, who is now 93, is the one who recalls some of the comments made about the car. I just wanted a T-Bird. We knew nothing of T-Birds or racing given our background. He is the one who was told the 2nd car like it was wrecked in a race. But the oddest recollection he has is insightful since it is totally meaningless! They mentioned to him that at one time, they did know if they were going to take the top off and run as a convertible. That was an irrational comment to him since it made absolutely no sense! (My Note: Ford Tbirds were run with the tops off, known as "Zipper Tops". I will post some pix of these '59 Tbirds.)

As far as the service bulletins, they were all the originals, all in exact chronological order, all in excellent shape, all in neat boxes saved by our little town Ford dealer who went out of business in about 1974. All were sent without making copies (you can imagine copying 500+ pages in 1974) and all were acknowledged recvd and thanks extended to me by Larry. At that time I had been and was an active member of the original VTCA and have the original paper listing those first 20 or so members. But I do NOT have copies of the service bulletins. I assumed they would be in good hands? Wasn’t that kind of thing achieved and stored for future use? Larry was President of the club for at least several years and it was he that I sent the VIN number to and it was he who told me the car did not exist in Ford’s records.

As far as contributing to the Forum, I would be more than happy to. The effort and information available here is invaluable. I will send you a check. (My Note: To become a Paid Member) As far as Lincolns, both of my T-Birds have the 430 Lincoln engine, so the connection is there for sure. For the purist, neither are stock in details, but both used to stop traffic and turns heads when they were running. I took the 60 sunroof on my honeymoon back in 84 and it was gorgeous !! I still have the car but she is gone to follow her dreams.

I am very happy to have rediscovered your group and plan to stay involved and support it. But by all means, use my name and I will try to send you a picture soon.

Take care and Happy New Year.

Mark Mundorff"

mmundorff@mapes.com

I have asked Mark to send a number of pictures, showing the engine well, the modifications made to the body, etc. and the VIN # and Data Plate information. Now, IF ANYONE knows anything further about this Tbird, Mark and the Forum would love to know about it. Please post here.

Here are several pictures. One of the famous Petty-Beauchamp race with Beauchamp in his '59 Tbird. One of a Holman-Moody '59 race car restored as it was in 1959 and one of a "Zipper Top" Tbird. I will post the other pix that Mark just sent me in another post! You will see about 8 pix of what it looks like today, including the VIN # and Data Plate information. The VIN # appears to be J9YH163343 but it is a bit hard to read that one "3". That VIN # is NOT in the Tbird Registry.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 59FordThunderbirdGrndNtnlNASCAR_DV06_NCM_01.jpg (312.8 KB, 205 views)
File Type: jpg Beauchamp'59TbirdAtDaytonJune14-1959.jpg (56.9 KB, 193 views)
File Type: jpg '59-Nascar-ZipperTopTbird.jpg (77.4 KB, 197 views)
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2010, 07:42 PM
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Default A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

Here are the pix that Mark just sent me. I am sure you will be interested in seeing these. Notice that the brakes are set up for Disk Brakes all around it appears to me. I hope Mark can send me some pix of the engine well. You will get to see a full drivers side view of the car.
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2010, 08:13 PM
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That's very cool to see old race cars still around or even if it's a replica. I had the chance to buy a 66 Charger replica that was all period correct just couldn't get it in the country without a huge hassle so I let it go
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File Type: jpg 1966 Nascar Charger 029.jpg (78.8 KB, 176 views)
File Type: jpg 1966 Nascar Charger2.jpg (84.1 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg cherger 014.jpg (57.2 KB, 173 views)
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  #4  
Old 12-30-2010, 09:53 PM
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Very exciting car there Ray! Hope someone knows something.
With those modifications, my most humbe guess would be that it´s a private racing car modified by someone with a little raceshop who might then race it on the weekends. The wheel arches looks a bit like something that either vent into dirt tracks as it is quite generous, or maybe for fast pit stops for tire change? In a way also like some kind of gasser for the dragstrip, but att the efforts to do the modification for the radiator cap on the hood don´t make any sence for dragracing but more for endurance stuff or at least long enough for the engine to go very hot. La Carrera Panamericana? Those cars might need double shocks to hold on over the distance? That would be exciting! The radio antenna confuses me though. What racecar have that? The seats looks like stock as well, and as in my car, there is nothing that holds the backrest in place, I can´t see anyone racing a car without good racing seats with a lot of seat belts to keep the driver in place during cornering and braking.
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Last edited by Anders : 12-30-2010 at 10:07 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2010, 08:53 AM
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Default A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

According to the Data Plate, this Tbird left the Wixom factory with a 430MEL engine, a VIN# of either J9YH163343 or J9YH165343 (it is hard to read. Which is it Mark?), as either the 63,343th car to come off the line, or the 65,343th car out of 67,456 '59 Tbirds produced. Neither of those VIN #'s are in the Tbird Registry - www.tbirdregistry.com

According to the Data Plate (which looks like the original one to me) it left there as a 2Dr HT which it is, with a Color Code A = Raven Black paint job all over. With a Trim Code of 1Y = Leather Interior. With a Date of 10H = 10 August, near the end of the production run, as it's VIN # indicates. With a Trans Code of 4 = 3 Spd Automatic COM, (required for the 430MEL engine) and an Axle Code of 5 = 2.91:1, standard for the 430MEL engines according to Automotive Mile Posts.
http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...fications.html

I have no idea what the grease pencil 359 indicates. So this Tbird, according to it's Data Plate, left there as a standard 430MEL Raven Black, with black leather interior, a 3 Spd Automatic COM tranny, and a 2.91:1 axle, produced towards the end of the 1959 Tbird production run.. Can anyone add to this?

I can't tell what the lettering on the back window reads. I can see that it does not have the standard '59 Tbird rear view mirror. It could be the '60 mirror with the Day/Night knob at the bottom that they switched to in the '60 run. It has a later model mirror on it, as my Tbird does, after I replaced it with a mirror that gave me better rear viewing. And yes, those seats look like the original black leather seats that came from the factory. Not seats that a car fully set up for racing would have. It appears to me that, as Anders suggested, this might have been a private individual who was prepping this car for racing to some extent, but not a company like H&M.
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Last edited by YellowRose : 12-31-2010 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Additional Information
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  #6  
Old 12-31-2010, 10:27 AM
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The guy that I got my car (with the open rear wheelwells) from also lived in Nebraska.....

Coincidence?
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  #7  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:04 PM
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Default A '59 Mystery Tbird Set Up For Racing...

Hey Greg! Any chance of you contacting the previous owner of your beautiful Tbird and asking him if he remembers doing a similar thing to a black '59 Tbird with black leather interior? Maybe he might be the one who did the racing mods to this car. You never know. Mark said he bought it in Omaha in 1967. You might run the information by your previous owner and see if any of this rings a bell with him, if that is possible to do.
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  #8  
Old 01-01-2011, 05:22 PM
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Default More On Mark's '59 Racing Tbird..

More information from Mark regarding his '59 Tbird partially set up for racing and his 1960 Golde Top. In another post, I will give you some history and pix of the '59 Tbirds in the 1959 Daytona 500 that the Burdick Garage Racing Team out of Omaha, Nebraska should have won. The decision to give the race to Lee Perry is still being debated today amongst oldtimers. The following is from Mark and I will probably put some comments in from the research I have done so far.

"I went digging through my old emails concerning T-birds that I got with other office emails and found this one dated 11/08.

Per Bob Mays who knew Bob Burdick, who had the 59 T-bird that almost won the 1st Daytona.

"all I know is what Bob told me. "some Ford Factory reps asked him if he would go south and race. Roy Burdick said sure, but he would need something to start with" One day six 1959 T-birds showed up at his garage in Omaha. Roy asked where they came from? The guy delivering them said "they fell down an elevator shaft at the factory and they were brought to Omaha for scrap".

Bob Mays thinks the one Johnny Beuchamp drove in Daytona was on of these and not from Homan and Moody!! (My note: Bob is correct, as history records it was a Beauchamp driven Bob Burdick Tbird) And Bob Mays knew them all personally. And then he finishes his comments by asking, "what happened to the others"? (My note: Both Roy and Bob Burdick have passed on recently, but Roy's brother Budd is/was still alive. I am trying to find out if the Burdick Garage Racing Team in Omaha still exists or who might have the records of those 6 Tbirds) Bob Mays still may be alive and I can try to tell me more in detail that his short email that I sort of forgot the details about. Think what kind of ruckas it would make for a Nebraska race car builder and driver to win Daytona? Holman and Moody were southern boys and was Petty. They say that is still one of the most disputed races in NASCAR history!

Thanks again and you can post anything I write to you if you want."

And then this PM.

"Ray, I also found the place where I saw the vents similar to mine. If you have a copy of Alan Tast's book on Thunderbirds, 55-66. Look on page 81 and look at the sketch on the lower left hand corner and then look at the picture of the front vents on my T-Bird and if that does not make your hear skip a beat.

I have seen this before, maybe years ago when I was working with Larry Seyfarth (My note: I have contacted a Larry Seyfarth in Detroit (I think I have the right one) to find out if he still has all those service bulletins that Mark sent him years ago, and if so, would he like to divest himself of them..) on trying to find the history of my car? All hit a dead end. So what does the 359 mean? The roof line detail, which you cannot see in the picture is extremely classic in detail and is a great refined detail for appearance reasons only. Concept for a new model?"

Followed by this one!

"Your interest in this quest is so very much appreciated. I sent you an email this morning with the serial numbers for both the 59 Avancier and the 60 SR.

The 59 does not have booster (My note: I asked him if it had one under the hood. It probably has the under the dash booster) and it has a single MC. Dual MC did not come about till mandated by the government in about 1967. Not on any american car anyhow as std equipment.

The 60 has the booster on inside I think. I would have to look for sure.

I will need to see if I can find any pictures of when I finished some of the restoration years ago, on both for that matter. (My note: We would love to see pix of your '60 J Code Golde Top also. I am missing an email from you!)

On the vents, yes there are several sketches of vents on the sides of cars, but this one looks like a dead ringer in almost every detail including center rib, slant of the vents and shape of the vents and placement on the fenders.

If you would, look for the other email for not only the serial number but other interesting comments. But just for the record the 59 is J9YH165343. The 60 SR is also a 430 and early production with smooth roof band.

And yes, that is that the same Larry Seyfarth. He had a white 60 and worked for Ford at the time. (My note: I read somewhere, that Larry Seyfarth was a Ford engineer and might have been involved in producing the Squarebird.)

One of my purposes in pursuing the history of the 59 is that if it has some historical value, I probably would not take it out on the road very often when I do get it running again. If not, then I will not too concerned. When I got the car back in 67, it fulfilled the prayers and dreams of a kid that could only dream of such a car! And then, there is was! Can you imagine bringing a car like that back to a small town of 700 people in the middle of Nebraska. It was the talk of the town for weeks!"

Mark's PM/emails are posted with his permission
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  #9  
Old 01-01-2011, 05:56 PM
Richard D. Hord Richard D. Hord is offline
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This is why Squarebirds web site is so AWESOME! Where else can you go and get all this great automobile history!
Keep up the great work guys, this is great!
Richard D. Hord
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Old 01-01-2011, 05:56 PM
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Default More on Racing Squarebirds...

Here are several websites that talk about the Daytona races, the Beauchamp-Perry race, the Burdick Garage Racing Team, operating on a shoestring, unlike Holman-Moody. You will probably find them interesting reading. Of the 40+ NASCAR races ran in 1959 Tbirds took the flag 7 times. The '59 Tbirds with their 430MEL engines held their own in competition and then some. Suddenly, NASCAR race cars where going faster, but on tires, at the time, that were not built for that high speed, so I read. Here are some web pages, followed by some racing Tbird pix.

http://www.wilsonsracereport.com/?p=1657

http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/opin...ick/index.html

http://midwestracingarchives.blogspo...b-burdick.html

http://www.playlandspeedway.com/burdicks.html

Now for the pictures. You will see a couple of Tbirds as "Pop Tops" or "Zipper Tops" as they were also called. Some of the Tbirds (I don't know if they were all configured like this) were modified so that their tops could be taken off and the car races as a "Pop Top/Zipper Top". When they wanted to race it with the roof on, they just bolted it back onto the car. #12 and #41 and #64 were also reported to fall in this category. I do not know about the Burdick #73 car.

I am going to try to find a contact with the Burdick family and Holman-Moody tomorrow, to see if they kept the VIN #/Data Plate information on these Tbirds. If I can get them, I will post them and register them in the Tbird Registry. Here are some more pix. Dr. Walter Warpeha of Minnesota, built a replica of the Burdick #73 car and you will see a couple pix of it. Also of a young Roy and Bob Burdick and the car. In another pic there is Tbird #12, 37 and what appears to be #54 fighting it out for position. There is a Daytona500 '59 race pic. Another pic of #64 by itself and one of #41. It is difficult to tell which car was sponsored by who. Dr. Walter Warpeha's Tbird is in the Tbird Registry! Here is the link to it!

http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=5670

I just discovered that Dr. Warpeha credited Holman-Moody as being the owner of the #73. That is accurate, as you can see from the pictures and the links. That is Bob Burdick and his Dad Roy standing by the #73 car. The car was obtained from H&M.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bob-Roy-Burdick-N-'59RacingTbird.jpg (28.0 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg 1959DaytonaJuly'59Tbirds.jpg (28.7 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg '59PopTopTbirdsDaytona1959.jpg (35.8 KB, 116 views)
File Type: jpg '59RacingTbirdNr41.jpg (69.3 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg '59TbirdNascar64.jpg (15.5 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg WalterWarpehaBuilt'59TbirdRoyBurdickReplica2.jpg (70.8 KB, 116 views)
File Type: jpg WalterWarpehaBuilt'59TbirdRoyBurdickRreplica1.jpg (328.9 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg Burdick-Beauchamp'59TbirdFeb15_Daytona500_1959-finish.jpg (38.8 KB, 115 views)
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Last edited by YellowRose : 01-04-2011 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Corrected some information
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