my 59 needs alot of help

[hunty]

hey guys I got, well I tried to get my thunderbird home from the panel shop and it died several times so I have a few questions. I think the panel shop has mucked up the wiring
1. does anyone have a wiring diagram for an alternator setup
2. the wire to the coil off the starter solenoid, what's that supposed to do
3. has anyone had problems with the autolite 4100 carb, I can't decide to charge it or rebuild it, as it pours fuel down it without the car running.
4. will the points take a 12v coil without burning them out
that's about it for now lol I know there's alot there and I've pretty much got to rewire most of the car as all the insulation just fell off when it was painted

[jopizz]

If you look in the Technical Resource Library you will find a lot of information related to changing to an alternator. However I doubt that's your problem. There's a brown wire that goes from the solenoid to the coil that gives it 12V only on startup. There is a coil resistor on the firewall that drops it to 6V. You cannot run 12V continuously. Your coil should be a 12V coil that needs an external resistor. It should say it on the coil. If your carb is pouring gas when not running most likely the floats or needle valves need replacing.

John

[hunty]

thanks John when I first got it back it wasn't charging. it's been mucked with by pulling out the motor and being painted. before all that it ran fine. there's a wire that was off the resistor it goes into a little black box and then to the alternator.
would this be the exciter wire or something. with that back on the alternator light went out and the car seemed to charge.
I meant if I re-run the wiring and use a 12v coil would the extra spark burn the points out.
cheers andrew

[YellowRose]

my 59 needs alot of help

Andrew, in case you need it, here is what that Ballast Resistor looks like when it it not mounted to the firewall. The side with the two wire connector spades showing mounts to the firewall. That puts the coil inside the ceramic block up against the firewall. Then there will a couple of pix with it mounted to the firewall, to the immediate left of the drivers side hood latch. On mine there is a red wire connected to the top and 2 yellow wires on the bottom connector. Why 2 I do not know. I did not do the wiring. Hopefully, these pix will be a help to you.

[jopizz]

With conventional points you must use the coil resistor or you will burn them up. I'm not sure what wire you are talking about that is off the resistor. Maybe we are talking about two different things. Here's the resistor that I am talking about. It has nothing to do with the alternator. It is next to the master cylinder hidden behind the brake hose. I don't know what you mean by using a 12V coil. Your coil should be 12V.

John

[Tbird1044]

Okay guys. Just so I don't get totally confused, did Ford use a ballast resistor in 58-59 and then go to the resistance wire in 60? I've pretty much only worked on the 60 models.

Nyles

[jopizz]

That's exactly what they did.

John

[simplyconnected]

thanks John when I first got it back it wasn't charging. it's been mucked with by pulling out the motor and being painted. before all that it ran fine. there's a wire that was off the resistor it goes into a little black box and then to the alternator.
would this be the exciter wire or something. with that back on the alternator light went out and the car seemed to charge.
I meant if I re-run the wiring and use a 12v coil would the extra spark burn the points out.
cheers andrew

Andrew, it's always good to work with a fellow Electrician. Your car came with a generator so I would like to see a picture of your alternator setup. Older alternators used an external voltage regulator while more modern alternators are regulated internally. So, let's see what you have.

Many times a 'hot with the key on' wire is needed under the hood. So it is common to see a wire taken from the ballast resistor (+12) to energize a relay coil. Then, the contacts were fed from the battery to power accessories like an electric choke. I'm guessing that your 'little black box' is a relay.

The TRL includes the diagrams you need for a stock 1959 T-bird. CLICK HERE for the large version of your diagram (then click on the picture to enlarge it) so you can copy it to your hard drive.

Ray and John have shown where the ballast resistor lives on your firewall. It should have three wires: One input from the key switch and two output, one to the starter solenoid (I-post) and one to the coil (+ or BATT post). As John said, the 'I' post delivers the full 12-volts only when the key is turned to 'start'. The other (S) post is the start solenoid's coil wire.

Your GEN light is fed from the key switch, then it continued as yellow/black to your old voltage regulator's "A" post. It is a small wire and you are correct in that alternators use this wire as a 'sense' wire to know when the key is switched on. Be careful here. The bulb MUST BE GOOD or your alternator will not charge. Some folks put a 500-ohm resistor across this bulb to pass enough power to the alt, showing the key is on even though the bulb is burned out. When the bulb is ok, it should work like you would expect: GEN light on with the key turned on but the engine not running OR if you threw a gen/alternator belt.

I might be off on the resistor value but you get the gist of what's going on. Your GEN and OIL dash light sockets are not grounded so they're rather easy to identify with two wires each. The GEN bulb wires are: black/green and yellow/black. Different vendors made these harnesses with either a yellow wire with a black trace OR yellow wire with a black rubber end. This is a convention Ford used on all harness wires.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions or if my explanation is fuzzy please ask. - Dave

[hunty]

thanks guys I probally need to explain better, I have one wire that used to run from the sarter solenoid to one side the resistor but now doesn't work. I think I bought the wrong solenoid.
the other goes to the coil, but there's a third that goes from the resistor to a black box, and then to the alternator. what I want to know is what the **** is the box and why does the alt need to have power to charge? problem is there's been too many people that aren't me touching my car lol

[hunty]

thank dave I posted just before seeing your post. this helps a lot I understand now. I think my solenoid is wrong. I had a look and the wiring for the power for the resistor is stuffed so that will need to be redone. and im getting 3 volts at the coil so I think my resistor's gone as well
what I ment by 12v coil is a coil that doesn't require a resistor to run. but I think that would burn out the points.
now to rewire the car.
anyone have any imput on the carby worth rebuilding or should I holley it lol

[Tbird1044]

It took a lot of patience, but I finally got my Autolite 4100 straightened out and am happy with it. The rebuild kit was about $25 which included the secondary diaphram.
If you get to the point of changing carbs, the one of choice seems to be the Edelbrock 1406. Haven't seen anything negative on that carb and everyone seems to like it.
Nyles