Convert from single to dual master cylinder

[Anders]

Something to be aware of IF you have AC your your '58, and I do not recall if you do, or not, Anders.. IF you have OEM AC you may run into a problem of clearing that AC box on the firewall with an under the hood dual MC/Dual 8" power booster. The other problem is, with OEM AC is that mounting bracket going to the firewall, has to be long enough to move that round power booster PAST the side of the AC Plenum box. Most of the companies who market this kind of dual setup do not take into account whether or not the Tbird has AC or not. There is only ONE company that I know of that markets that kind of set up for Squarebirds that does market that setup WITH the correct mounting bracket that clears that box, if you tell them your Bird has OEM AC. That is ABS, and they will NOT sell you just the mounting bracket. So, should you decide to purchase that setup in the picture, IF you have OEM AC, you need to ask them if that mounting bracket will clear the AC Plenum box or not. You are a Paid Member, so you may want to look in the Members Conference Section, Members Only thread at the parts list there. You should be able to find a dual MC/dual 8" power booster with the mounting bracket at a cheaper price. IF you have no OEM AC on Ruth... Also, be aware of this. I used a MBM combination system on Tweety Bird, with the bubble top cover on the MC. Which promptly hit the inside of my newly painted Tbird, and scratched the new paint job. I had to lower the MC slightly to clear that problem. You may want to see about getting a dual MC with the FLAT top on it.

GREAT Ray! Big Thanks! I check with ABS, because I do have an original AC, not an OEM (y) I have mailed ABS now, so I hope I get an answer on my questions in the beginning of next week.

[YellowRose]

ABS may not have drum-drum setup. Anders it looks like we have competing threads on this subject. One that goes back to 2016 with some of those people long gone on here. And one started last year. Lets keep the replies in this older thread and not in the new thread.

[YellowRose]

Drum/Drum indicates that all four brakes are drum style brakes. Drum/Disk indicates that the rear brakes are drum brakes and the front brakes are disk brakes..

[Anders]

Drum/Drum indicates that all four brakes are drum style brakes. Drum/Disk indicates that the rear brakes are drum brakes and the front brakes are disk brakes..

Yeah, I realised that and took away my silly question..
Saw this info as well, and is not yet sure what it means for me... ( still looking at the Master Power Brakes )
"Not recommended when using a 292, 312 or 352 engine due to exhaust manifolds. Will not work on factory power brake equipped vehicles." I have a 390 in my car, but I don't understand what the mean by "Not recommended when using a 352 engine due to exhaust manifolds" as the ´58:s was equipped with a 352... and this system is supposed to fit a Thunderbird 58...
And factory power brake equipped vehicles? The booster, if you can call it that, sits on the inside of the fire wall...
Need to dig more.

[Anders]

Master Power Brakes has a nice, easy bolt-up booster and drum/drum dual master cyl setup. Unless you want originality, since the booster differs. No prop valve is needed. You can plumb-in a brake switch anywhere. Actually, I went with a mechanical switch on the linkage because I've had some wet switches fail.
I didn't feel like chasing for compatible parts, so this kit had it all together.

Do you have a AC on your car? Would it be possible to take a few pics on your installation?

[Anders]

Wow, who would have thought so many owners of classic Thunderbirds would also be bikers!?

And so far off topic...lol!

Of course we are

[bygrace]

Well, Anders - Yes I do have an AC car. However it's Vintage Air and under the dash. The box on the firewall is gone.

Nevertheless, my Master Power setup cleared the AC box just fine when the box was there. The reason it cleared - as Ray (YellowRose) is right to point out - is because the OEM brake spacer he mentioned was present on my OEM-air car. My older Master Power setup needed the spacer too, because the 10" MP booster was almost as large (dia.) as the OEM booster. And like Ray said, they're unobtainable. (Tho I've seen them built.)

But now, I see by the picture you supplied, MP is using an 8" booster, which has been used in other setups I have seen, to clear the AC box without a spacer. You can always ask MP about the whole subject. They definitely knew about the box clearance when I talked to them about needing a spacer, years ago. Now it looks like they've solved it in a different way, spacer or not.
Sorry, this means a pic of my old setup would be outdated.
I hope this helps, and that you find a setup you like, MP or other. Mike

[bygrace]

Oh. Forgot to say I can't make any sense of the admonition against "292 and 312 engines". They were in Little Birds. And all 58s were 352s. Which are externally exactly like 390s. You'll be best to clarify all that with Master Power or go another way.
Mike

[jopizz]

It doesn't matter if the booster is 10" or 8". You will still need the spacer to clear the AC box. You can spend a little bit of money to just upgrade to a dual master cylinder or a lot of money to add a booster and dual master cylinder. At the end of the day you will still have the same average performing drum brakes.

John

[Anders]

It doesn't matter if the booster is 10" or 8". You will still need the spacer to clear the AC box. You can spend a little bit of money to just upgrade to a dual master cylinder or a lot of money to add a booster and dual master cylinder. At the end of the day you will still have the same average performing drum brakes.

John

Thanks John!,
It looks like my original booster is in pretty good shape, so I am thinking of only the dual master cylinder. Does anyone know the pedal ratio in my car? Is it 6:1? Can't find any information in my Shop Manual... Also, is Aluminium master cylinder better than casted steel or opposite? Or no difference?

Anyone with experience of Wilwood Master Cylinders? Good? Bad?

[Anders]

So I have ordered a dual master cylinder from Master Power Brakes. They was much more helpful with answering my questions than other companies I also wrote to, and a friend of mine had good experience with there products. Wish me luck And thanks for your support in this matter.

[NC Tbird]

I went with Leed Brakes kit.

https://leedbrakes.com/i-23439496-4-...r-cylinder-kit.

[Anders]

I went with Leed Brakes kit.

https://leedbrakes.com/i-23439496-4-...r-cylinder-kit.

They answered me that they didn't have anything for me... Wilwood didn't want to sell overseas... Anyway, The guy at Master was very quick in reply and very service minded so I bought it from them.

[DKheld]

Hi folks - sorry - been away from the Squarebirds site for a while for various reasons. Hope you won't mid my input. I converted my Tbird to disc brakes way back before the scarebird brackets were available - probably before they were even thought of - ha! The old school way was to use a set of Ford Granada spindles and have the bottom mount machined to fit the Tbird ball joints. Everything else is stock Granada - lowers the front end by about 1/2 inch as well. Scarebird is definitely the way to go now.

That was the easy part......

Never was able to find (with the help of a good friend who works at NAPA) any disc/drum master cyl that would DIRECTLY bolt on to the OEM 4 stud under hood (Bendix) booster. Found one guy who had bolted on a master cyl to the OEM booster using only 2 of the 4 studs however it looked really risky.

Finally found Power Brake Booster Exchange in Oregon - they were able to exchange the front of my OEM booster with another (Lincoln) booster that uses 2 longer and larger studs thus allowing for many possibilities.

I went with a Granada Master cyl since the rest of the system minus the rear brakes are Granada. Had to make new front hard lines and a few other details.

Ran it that way for a few years then made an extension bracket to move the system out to clear the evaporator box I was adding for A/C. I added the original style box to the firewall.

Still working great after about 18 years!!
Wow!!! - didn't realize it had been that long, Might be a good idea for me to consider replacing the master cyl this summer.

Completely changes the stopping characteristics of the car (for the better).

Eric
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[byersmtrco]

I might have posted this before.
When my dad still had the car and it still had the dumb (I mean drum) brakes on it,
he put a dual resv cyl on it. He ran no prop valve, just the T.
The brakes were worse. That thing would not stop. Not in a straight line. OK, which
wheel is gonna lock today? A dual M/Cyl is better IF used with a prop valve. But it
has to be the correct combination.

What I don't understand is,
the 62 Merc we had was drum brake and it stopped fairly decent. Same with the
68 Caprice. I'm guessing the frt brake shoes are bigger.


If I had the $, the TB would be disc all the way around. Disc/Drum cars, the stopping
ratio is about 70% frt & 30 % Rr. On 4 whl disc, it's more like 55/45.

I regret now using that SSBC kit. But it was almost the only thing available other
than using Granada parts. It is pretty much garbage compared to what's out there now.

That set up in the post right above this is nice