1959 bird with a/c...ANY ONE TRIED HYDRO BOOST P/BRAKE CONVERSION?HYDRO BOOST

[BEVS BIRD]

HI GUYS... The usual probs tryin to get P/Brake booster parts. as you know the firewall to booster brkt foe an A/C car is made of unobtainium..My question.. Has anyone tried the hydroboost route to Power disc brake bliss...I have installed a hydoboost on my 55 Chev...Man it is great and is a tiny system compared to a Vac booster setup..It puts out up to 2400 lbs/sq/in and runs off the p/s pump...2nd question...anyone know psi/flow rate of 1959 t/bird p/s pump?? CHEERS TERRY

[YellowRose]

1959 bird with a/c...

I don't know a thing about Hydro Boost or Hydra Tech Braking, but I looked up their website and read through their FAQ section. According to this, if you have up front drum brakes you will need to convert them to disc brakes. I see also that this system is engineered for off road only and not for street use and they give the reasons why. Here is the link to their website and then FAQ section. If anyone has any other experience with this type of braking system, please chime in...

http://www.hydratechbraking.com/

http://www.hydratechbraking.com/FAQ.html

[YellowRose]

1959 bird with a/c

Terry, I spoke with Jim at Hydra Tech Braking this morning and he did some research on this. He just called me back and said that if you have the OEM cast iron manifolds on that car, their system is NOT going to work because there won't be enough clearance. If you have headers, it WILL work. They have a custom system that is NOT in their catalog that can be installed on a Squarebird. He asked if you had power brakes on the car and I told him I did not know, but after reading your post again, I see you said that you had been looking for P/Brake booster parts, so I gather you do. It is good, I think, that you do have Power Brakes. It is my understanding that if you have drum brakes all around, you will need to do the front brake conversion to disc brakes and a proportional valve to make this work. You may have to buy the ABS system to obtain their mounting bracket that allows the MC & 8" booster (or Hydro Brake System) to clear the AC Plenum box. Or make your own mounting bracket to clear it. That is something that will have to be looked into. I am assuming you will want to get a dual master cylinder on the car. Whether or not you will need the 8" dual power booster, I do not know, if you add their Hydra System to the car. Someone else is going to have to comment on that, or Jim can tell you if you call him. He said to give him a shout if you have questions. He is there between 10am-3pm. (615) 449-8261 CST. I hope this helps.

[BEVS BIRD]

Hydoboost Brakes

RAY...Thnx for the info.I will do some more research on that set up..I bought a 59 Bird front disc kit from Master Power brks...I guess i didnt ask the right questions..even after reading the many posts on the subject in the Squarebirds forums...they assured me it would fit...no way... as you have probably guessed ...the booster hit the A/C plenum..The quality of the Kit is top notch and the wheel/brk/brkts are well engineered. I intend to convert to front discs to followm the advice of the many Birdowners who have done this...will keep you posted...CHEERS TERRY

[YellowRose]

1959 bird with a/c...

Hi Terry, I see you bought the Master Power Brakes setup. I looked at their website and I don't even see a kit for a Squarebird listed, just for Babybirds. Unfortunately, I see you had the same problem others do when they have an AC equipped Squarebird. There are other ways to get around the problem of clearing that AC plenum box. One of them is to use the bracket that came with that kit, and then make your own extension brackets to push that system clear of the plenum box. I will post a couple of pix of what one of our members did to his Squarebird. He did not have an AC plenum box to clear, but he made his own mounting brackets. What you might be able to do is to mount the mounting bracket that came with the set up to the power booster and then add U channel stock to push it out far enough to clear the plenum box. The other thing I do not know about is IF you put a Hydra Tech Brake system on the car, will you even need the power booster? That is a question you will need to ask them about.

Here is what Marcelo did to his Squarebird. You can also see how he mounted his proporptional valve. However, it has been said that it is better to mount that to the fender well to make it easier to change spark plugs. Hopefully, this will help you.

I assume, your Squarebird being a '59, that you have the Kelsey-Hayes unit under the dash and NOT the Bendix single MC with power booster in the engine bay... If you have the K-H unit, we just left ours in place as it was. If you happen to have the Bendix under the hood unit, then you should be able to use that OEM mounting bracket and hopefully, extend it out further with those U channel extensions... If I am wrong, Dave ~ simplyconnected or jopizz should be able to tell you.

[simplyconnected]

I keep hearing about A/C. The reason Marcelo added the 'U' channels is because the booster input rod was too long and he didn't want to cut it down to a nub. Notice his car has NO A/C.

The aftermarket Master PB bracket is all you really need. Leonard Wheeler and Larry Noska both bought MPB systems but they didn't use spacers. I don't know if they had A/C.

Originally, Marcelo mounted his valve on the flimsy bracket that attaches to the master cylinder. Later, he relocated the valve to his fender apron, using the holes already in the GM-type valve. This makes sense if you have big hands with limited space to change plugs, under the M/C. - Dave

[Yellowbird]

My '58 does not have A/C
Thanks

[BEVS BIRD]

more on the Disc brk conversion in an A/C 59 Bird

MANY thanks for the input and Pix.This is an awesome car guy site. .The latest is... I am returning Masterpower kit...I talked to THUNDERBIRD headquarters in California...They supply booster kits built by ABS Brakes...They sell 2 kits..A/C and Non A/C They will supply a booster and brkt and M/C ..along with the disc brk parts for stock spindles...The guy {Paul} at T/Bird HQ is a Bird guy and says he is familiar with the a/c plenum fitment prob. I will advise when I have the parts in hand...CHEERS TERRY

[YellowRose]

1959 bird with a/c...

Hi Terry, we are familiar with the ABS non-AC and AC systems. They are the only company I know of who make the mounting bracket that will allow the system to clear that AC plenum box. Unfortunately, it is part of their kit and they do not sell it seperately. I see you will be returning the MPB system. The ABS system works fine I am told and a number of people here have it installed on their Squarebirds.

[OX1]

HI GUYS... The usual probs tryin to get P/Brake booster parts. as you know the firewall to booster brkt foe an A/C car is made of unobtainium..My question.. Has anyone tried the hydroboost route to Power disc brake bliss...I have installed a hydoboost on my 55 Chev...Man it is great and is a tiny system compared to a Vac booster setup..It puts out up to 2400 lbs/sq/in and runs off the p/s pump...2nd question...anyone know psi/flow rate of 1959 t/bird p/s pump?? CHEERS TERRY

Haven't put an HB on a SB, but have done three systems. 2000ish stang in a 70 bronco, same system in an 80's fox body and a mid 70's lincoln HB in a late 70's fullsize bronco.

In all three cases, it was a tremendous upgrade. I would go with the dual return port, sag pumps that came in the 70's lincolns. Some of the HB's are finicky about unrestricted flow from the return, low pressure line from the HB unit itself.

The only other item that may be unique is HB with the ram steering. Since the fluid goes to the HB before the steering box (or in our case control valve and ram), there may not be enough flow through the HB.

This was a problem in many cases when ram steering (hydrosteer) was added to an offroad truck with large tires. Sometimes the HB had to be internally ported to work with both the orig power steering box and an additional ram. May be OK since you are not trying to run a box and a ram, only one.

Not sure why you would have to convert front to disk, except that it may feel substantially overboosted from severely increased line pressure or the wheel cyl's just can not take that kind of pressure.

I also don't see why these parts would be any more "offroad only" than the 100's of mods we all do, all the time.

[simplyconnected]

My apologies for posting wrong information about Master Power Brakes. (I'm kinda surprised someone didn't correct my 'advanced-age' error sooner.)

The system that Leonard and Larry used is ABS Kit #9787.

To my knowledge, this is the ONLY commercially available kit that works in all Squarebirds. Somehow, they have a corner of the market on the all-important firewall bracket (that nobody else has) and they will NOT sell it as a stand-alone part. (We tried.) Sorry for my mistake and thanks to Ray Clark for suggesting ABS.

I've seen too many failures with hydraulic brake systems so I stick with vacuum boosters. If your car is in a crash or the engine stops, the vacuum booster always has a few 'extra' pumps in it. I can't say that for hydraulics unless you add an accumulator. - Dave

[BEVS BIRD]

MORE P/Disc brake stuff

HI T/Bird group...I have purchased kit from T/Bird headquqrters in CALIFORNIA...They buy from ABS ...Here are a few BAD pix they sent of kit...I will receive it in next week or so..I will advise and send better pix and also, see if Santa has got it right..-22degrees C on SILVER STAR ski hill .AWESOME CONDITIONS .Keeps the crowds away.CHEERS TERRY

[BEVS BIRD]

more 59 bird disc brake stuff

HI GUYS...Finally spent some time on Bevs Bird...dry fit Disc brake kit from T/Bird Headquarters. BOOSTER & Brkt fit as advertised, need only small shim fwd to ensure clearance between A/C plenum and booster...lots of M/C clearance at R/Cover, shift linkage, exhaust etc. maade bushings etc to mate to orig brk pedal.. calipers appear to be Cardone stuff.18-4195...GM Buick 1988/1996 with D215-7136 Pads.. custom brkts for caliper mnt. cannot I.D. M/C and ABS brake guys are not giving any info??? must be a secret setup.I got Ford Ranger 14 X 5 1/2 rims 3 3/4 B/space.they clear calipers ..but will only take a P195/75 tire ,which I think may be too small for this heavyweight unit, any thought on that??.....also did PCV upgrade..drilled INT mnfld for vac port and will also hook distributor here for full Vac..{Pertonix installed} Cheers Terry

[BEVS BIRD]

59 Bird Disc Brake Stuff

SORRY GUYS I have no clue why some pix are upside down in last post...CHEERS TERRY

[jopizz]

I got Ford Ranger 14 X 5 1/2 rims 3 3/4 B/space.they clear calipers ..but will only take a P195/75 tire ,which I think may be too small for this heavyweight unit, any thought on that??

I have the same rims and have 215/75 tires mounted on them. They should easily take 225/75 if you want to go larger. Who told you that they only take 195/75 tires.

John